Brainstorm: Ways to make players more fearful of dying.

phyte · Post by **phyte** » 2005-12-01 21:23

It would be interesting to play with some ideas to create some sort of fear of death in players. The fear of dieing is completely absent in computer games, and as a result people play carelessly and ramboish when that would _never_ happen in the real world. I would love if realty mod developers and community members brainstormed on some ideas to 'Put the fear of death' into reality mod players. It would slow the game down and make it more realistic.

Another change to game play might be forcing teamplay somehow, by giving the squad lead ability to limit objectives to the one that he sets as the primary objective, or secondary third etc... So that only those objectives are possible, people not in squads could basically do nothing (like take flags/drive vehicles etc).

On to the Death thing, I had a few ideas:
1. Penalize with -n score when a soldier dies and respawns.
2. Increase the respawn timeout by a large increasing number after each time the player dies.
3. Disable respawn completely, so that a medic needs to attend to the injured soldier before they can continue (Might make for interesting scenarios where an injured soldier would have to be retrieved under fire). And penalize a team heavily if they totally forsake a downed soldier and do not provude medical aid. (If a player is completely blown to bits, then they respawn after a set ammount of time, at a far away base.)

I would love to see more of these types of aspects added to the mod. It would be cool if the mod became known for teamplayers, and elminated the lame rambo style single player fragfest.

Suicide Commando · Post by **Suicide Commando** » 2005-12-01 21:35

I think set missions rather than conquest flag capping is the key to getting people to work as a team. Take a look at AA, when you're on a good server everyone works to get the objectives done. Obviously there are morons who don't but that will always happen.

Anyway to the death thing, I agree a minus score is a good idea. Your 2nd point is interesting. I'll have a think for some ideas...

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2005-12-01 21:38

Longer respawn (45 seconds, maybe)

Louder sounds when bullets fly past.

Suicide Commando · Post by **Suicide Commando** » 2005-12-01 21:39

Blurred vision for a second or two when you get hit by a bullet, nobody can aim while being shot.

Post by **CodeRedFox** » 2005-12-01 21:46

have the bleeding look happen alot sooner and narrow your vision even more? Or even a fading out from light to dark. I wonder if when you get hit your guy can scream "I been hit"

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-12-01 22:14

Score deductions are pointless in Mods because it is irrelavant. The ranking system does not function for the mod so points are pretty much, well, pointless. So no one will care if they get points deducted for dying...(I'm one of those people who would care less about points. Im all about teamwork and overall victory.)

I think it's pretty much impossible to devise a way to make players actually fear dying in a game without making it extremely annoying first..

What we can do is make dying very unwanted. Anything that you do though will get annoying quick. Then, people may not want to play the mod. Thats no good.

So I think the best thing to do would be to make players fear getting hit by increasing thier chances of dying when they get hit. There are many more ways to do this without making it too annoying.

For instance, increasing the dramatic effect when shot could be done by blurring of the vision for a second or two and adding in the black tunnel vision effect that slowly fades away shouldnt be too annoying.

The effect would have to be fairly fast but long enough to prove a problem. It would basically create a much more realistic offset too. Basically who ever gets hit first is usually the first person to die. Unless you can get cover and gather yourself.

Perfectly logical and will open up a lot of realistic gameplay.

Post by **CodeRedFox** » 2005-12-01 22:20

I love the idea of more "EFFECT" the tunnel vision we have no is cool, BUt I think it could be more tunnel like. The opacity levels are a little low and the tunnle effect doesnt go that far. You can still see through the effect now. Maybe shrink it WAY down so its more like passing out.

Gunfighter34ID · Post by **Gunfighter34ID** » 2005-12-01 22:34

Good ideas. I like the ones about increasing the respawn time after each death. Making the effects of being hit more pronounced and putting someone who has been hit and a disadvantage is also a good idea and will probably help encourage people to use cover and fire and movement more.

Maybe you could limit the total number of respawns, say after 'x' number of respawns you can only be revived by a medic.

{GD}geogob · Post by **{GD}geogob** » 2005-12-01 22:42

limited number of respawn / longer respawn delays could do that.

Limiting the number is probably a better choice as longer delay will only piss people off (been there). This is sad as longer respawns is a better solution game play wise. Perhaps a bit of both would do.

Post by **CodeRedFox** » 2005-12-01 22:56

But when you do limit, ppl may leave after they cant respawn.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-12-01 22:57

I disagree with limiting the number of respawns, the reason that stuff works in CS or AA is because generally the levels are smaller and the action is a lot faster. Has anyone ever been on the wrong side of having one player left alive on a team and they aren't doing anything? What happens if a player joins a game where there is uncontrolled basecamping taking place and he dies immediately, waits 45 seconds, dies immediately etc until all of their respawns are used?

That would send me looking for a new mod.

I think the answer is easy. Players are only able to spawn from a main base after a 30-45 second respawn. PR could try to implement 'off limits' zones determined by which team you're on (FH did it for BF1942, not sure if it can be done here but it works well) to lower the chance of basecamping. If that doesnt work bases can be made as they are ideally made in real life: hard to get into. One entrance/exit surrounded by walls and barbed wire. This would have to be tested to make sure that no ammount of craftiness will allow a player to become a basecamper.

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2005-12-01 23:06

{GD}geogob wrote:limited number of respawn / longer respawn delays could do that.

Both of which are incredibly boring. Its still a game. If people where to be made fearful of dying, we wouldnt be playing the game at all. We would be deserting, surrendering or refusing to fight

The only change to the spawn system I'd like to see is no spawning by the flags, only squads and main base (for cappable mainbase, place only defenders teams spawnlocations).

Or some tactically varied spawning. For example if its a mainbase1-flag-flagX-flagIMPORTANT-flagY-flag-mainbase2 layout then it could be so that team1 could spawn at flagX but no other locations. Similarly team2 can spawn at flagY but no other locations. (except of course mainbases for respective team)

The above is simple to implement, you avoid watching the sky for longer periods (although you might have to walk a while, which is where the "fear" of dying comes in) and brings a not entirely unwanted encouragment to join squads to keep up those forward spawnpoints.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-12-01 23:11

dawdler wrote:Both of which are incredibly boring. Its still a game. If people where to be made fearful of dying, we wouldnt be playing the game at all. We would be deserting, surrendering or refusing to fight

Or some tactically varied spawning. For example if its a mainbase1-flag-flagX-flagIMPORTANT-flagY-flag-mainbase2 layout then it could be so that team1 could spawn at flagX but no other locations. Similarly team2 can spawn at flagY but no other locations. (except of course mainbases for respective team)

If you desert in this game you get killed remember?

Good idea, although i think if there are flags (x,y) away from main where you can spawn, squad spawns shouldn't be allowed, if they are one squad could hold an easily defendable position indefinitely seen as they have unlimited manpower.

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2005-12-01 23:20

'[R-PUB wrote:BrokenArrow']If you desert in this game you get killed remember?

Good idea, although i think if there are flags (x,y) away from main where you can spawn, squad spawns shouldn't be allowed, if they are one squad could hold an easily defendable position indefinitely seen as they have unlimited manpower.

But isnt that supposed to be the point? It should always be easy to defend but difficult to attack.

Not that I think it will in any way be more easy. On the contrary, if only mobile player spawns where in effect (ignoring my other part of the suggestion), its going to be a hell of alot harder to keep up attacks or defense. At least for the non-squad people, but also for those in the squads if they keep dying or dont cover their medics/squadleader.

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-01 23:33

The flags and capping system is fine. The flags represent positions that need to be taken and secured, and used as a base to launch other attacks on other positions. This is very fundamental of modern combat.

A way to make players value their lives more, is to make the respawn a little longer, and make bullet whizzes and death more dramatic, loud, and scary. Also, make the deaths decrease tickets by a factor of 2?

Rg · Post by Rg » 2005-12-02 00:01

Great ideas guys,

'[R-PUB wrote:GRB']
The effect would have to be fairly fast but long enough to prove a problem. It would basically create a much more realistic offset too. Basically who ever gets hit first is usually the first person to die. Unless you can get cover and gather yourself.

Exactly.

If you have a strong blur effect and maybe a black screen blink, squint or tunnel vision to show your hit and in pain. That would make it almost impossible to fire acuraety for the next 2 seconds.

About spawning, I agree with BrokenArrow

'BrokenArrow' wrote: I think the answer is easy. Players are only able to spawn from a main base after a 30-45 second respawn. PR could try to implement 'off limits' zones determined by which team you're on (FH did it for BF1942, not sure if it can be done here but it works well) to lower the chance of basecamping. If that doesnt work bases can be made as they are ideally made in real life: hard to get into. One entrance/exit surrounded by walls and barbed wire. This would have to be tested to make sure that no ammount of craftiness will allow a player to become a basecamper.

BUT, there is no need for a 30-45 sec respawn time if you have to spawn back at base camp. This would also be interesting, because the more flags you capture, the closer you are to the enemies base camp which will create more resistance since the enemy will get to your position faster.

About ‘off limits’ zones, I mentioned this before and posted a picture of an example. Is this basically what you are talking about? http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8216/tkoh9ft.jpg

*edit*Think of OFP. Why are you more fearful of dying in that game?

Helstrm · Post by **Helstrm** » 2005-12-02 00:10

Electro shock.... Figure out a way to send a surge through the players keyboard... Each time you die you get a higher voltage.... Or shock collars.

Rg · Post by Rg » 2005-12-02 00:18

The problem with that is it’s basically classical conditioning. You would be training yourself to not want to play the game, lol.

Helstrm · Post by **Helstrm** » 2005-12-02 00:31

Heydude235 · Post by **Heydude235** » 2005-12-02 00:37

Suicide Commando wrote:nobody can aim while being shot.

not true