Civilian class - needs to be a limited kit

daveee · Post by **daveee** » 2007-08-01 01:44

Playing Desert Storm/Al Falujah last night, with nearly half the insurgent team being civilians makes for a very difficult and angry game.

Theres needs to be some sort of restriction on how many civilians there can be, be it a max of 1 per squad or 4-5 for the entire team.

You can't actually concentrate on shooting the guys with guns because you have 3-4 civilians swarming around you throwing rocks at you. If you decide to chase them off with your knife you then are open to being taken out by people who actually have guns.

On maps like Al Basrah this is fine because you can just drive off and find an ammo dump elsewhere..but on Desert Storm because you have to do everything in a certain order, by the time you get to the Canyon flag you've run out of tickets due to people accidentally taking out the civilians - and then when you get to canyon they just need the civilians to stand in the entry way with mines infront of them and you can't get through.

Added to the pain is the inability to use any sort of explosive weapons (grenades, grenade launchers - L/H AT) on this map because if you do you'll more than likely take out a few civilians.

At present the US on this map are completely overwhelmed by a lack of firepower (they have the firepower, just cannot use it otherwise they are penalised) and a massive population that seem to live in the desert around artillery and defensive positions - not in houses of any sort. They should be confined to certain areas of the map such as the main city and anywhere the houses are scattered around - not left to run free.

In "reality" people who throw rocks at you are hostile, be it civilian or military and if given the chance im sure any army in the world would put a grenade or tank round through a window if they were being threatened without being punished for it.

My 2 cents..

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2007-08-01 02:11

Desert Storm will be removed in an upcoming patch

daveee · Post by **daveee** » 2007-08-01 02:51

Thank god for that!

{GD}Ghost · Post by **{GD}Ghost** » 2007-08-01 03:18

'[R-DEV wrote:fuzzhead']Desert Storm will be removed in an upcoming patch

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love this map! Its one of my favorites. It just needs some adjustments to how it plays. I actually enjoy playing as U.S.

The civilian issue is a valid issue, however. Solve that and you still have an excellent map.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-08-01 04:06

i limit system like the one in FH2 for the civilians will be good IMO

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2007-08-01 04:07

Well, for AAS style maps maybe they could edit the weapons screen like they did with street in .5, and take out the civilian class?

tekkyy · Post by **tekkyy** » 2007-08-01 04:26

I thought AAS insurgency is going away anyway.

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2007-08-01 04:50

Well I hope there is an overt combat map...

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2007-08-01 04:52

AAS with insurgent faction is not working out as everyone can clearly see....

KomradePedrovsk · Post by **KomradePedrovsk** » 2007-08-01 04:56

'[R-DEV wrote:fuzzhead']Desert Storm will be removed in an upcoming patch

Noooooo, why?

. You can actually win that map as USMC with ease if you use the right tactics.

I usually drive the APC to the mountains in the north, so USMC have a easy to defend spawn point.

I also manage to get on the north ridge of the Canyon, yes you've read it well, not the south but the north one. You can actually go up that slope if you keep sprint button pressed and keep pressing jump as fast as you can. I always do this as SL and set a RP from above. This way the USMC attack from both north, center and south, and can actually advance this way. Insurgents can ask for Civilians to throw graphling hooks on the rock on the north ridge so they can stand a chance as well.

Why not just change that map? Make it so the north ridge is acessible like the south one is and you have a much more balanced map, with the Canyon being less of a chokepoint.

Warne · Post by **Warne** » 2007-08-01 05:09

Desert Storm would be so much nicer for USMC if you could just C4 clear the mines like you can in BF2142. Those mines are really the only thing stopping you from busting through with a APC or Humvee. Engineer just can't get in there with a wrench without get naded, cocktailed or shot. C4 detonate them: Problem somewhat solved. One gap large enough and you can shoot through, but i've seen Insurgents put enough mines down on the wall that it looks like they're stacked on top of each other three-high.

tekkyy · Post by **tekkyy** » 2007-08-01 05:34

KomradePedrovsk wrote:Noooooo, why?

Well for one I think insurgency mode should be asymmetric warfare like clearing weapons cache.
It doesn't make sense to me for civilians to be part of a head-on assault.

I don't think civi needs to be limited kit. Its stupid to have too many civis anyway. If a squad has 4 civis and 2 other guys its so easy to kill the 2 guys and cap the other 4.

Personally I usually don't go civi if there is already one. A civi walking around without insurgent "cover" is suicide for me. I can only do one headshot before being captured.

Swe_Olsson · Post by **Swe_Olsson** » 2007-08-01 07:04

This is a wise choice from the dev's aswell as it gives a spot open for a new new map

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2007-08-01 07:53

Swe_Olsson wrote:This is a wise choice from the dev's aswell as it gives a spot open for a new new map

I was hoping that Bagdad map was going to work but apparently it fell through.