Marker dot issue...misconception

willgar · Post by **willgar** » 2007-08-01 07:52

I dont even try for head shots - center mass - two in the chest and they are pretty much dead!

Wolfe · Post by **Wolfe** » 2007-08-01 08:01

pasfreak wrote:why the f*ck would i want to draw on my screen? ever?

To write an A+ next to Rico's post.

Post by **Saobh** » 2007-08-01 08:35

Well a risk people should think about is ... your 4 year old kid/brother notices you drew something on your screen ... I wonder what he'll draw on around it

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2007-08-01 12:25

Lampshade111 wrote:The first guy who tries to take away my widescreen monitor gets cut.

LMAO!

All of those posts after my last one were funny as hell. You guys are on a roll now

R

WNxKenwayy · Post by **WNxKenwayy** » 2007-08-01 12:40

pasfreak wrote:i have a mac.

why the f*ck would i want a mac? ever?

*fixed

vanity · Post by **vanity** » 2007-08-01 13:38

Lampshade111 wrote:The first guy who tries to take away my widescreen monitor gets cut.

I've got a widescreen too but unfortunately we're not seeing anymore view than people with normal monitors.

As far as the sensitivity-on-the-fly-mouse, my G5 does NOT work well in BF2 when doing that. It freaks out and takes about 10-15 seconds to return to normal.

geogob · Post by **geogob** » 2007-08-01 14:28

I'm really getting sick of people protecting cheaters. I have issues about people accusing without proof cheaters, but I have even more issues with those who defend people who get caught or admit they are cheating.

Looking back at older threads, I see this is not the first time some of you defend people cheating.

As for the type of cheating discussed here, may I remind you of the case of a player called $TeALth.BLaDe, aka as StealthUK on these forums and Solo on some other forums.

That guy was caught by PB and banned.

reason:

OHHHH i know what it was. I tried using this universal cross hair for PR, it simply puts a cross hair in the middle of your screen, thought it would help since you don't get 1 in PR... got kicked by punkbuster reason "Game Hack"... i really didn't know that wasn't allowed. How can i get unbanned? I mean its not like i used an actual hack is it?

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24439

Putting a dot on your screen to play even a single round online is cheating enough for a global ban. That it's not possible to detect easily doesn't change a thing about what it is.

Really, the arguments I saw some of you post to defend this action are really making me wonder. I thought this community was fairly clean of such lame BS up to now. I'm really disappointed as it is not the kind of community I want to be part of, one that defends people who get caught or admit they are cheating or cheated in the past.

I'm sorry, but how ever you put it, there is no excuse for cheating. There is no good reasons for cheating. There are no acceptable reasons not to ban you if you do. Period.

There should never be any discussion about this. The day you start to slack off on cheaters is the day the game dies.

Hackers defending hackers or pointing out hacking in general to make themselves fell "clean" is fairly common. Hackers also like to think many people hack to remove the guilt they have deep in them for doing so. Let me cite the same guy again as example:

StealthUk wrote:You know there are many hack sites that provide hacks for a monthly payment membership. Its fu*king sh!t, i know. I did some research and i think more people hack BF2 than people think. Some hacks i know exist include: Name tags for enemy players, Enemy players on the map, No recoil, Max accuracy every shot (Even on automatic, you can fire a PKM while standing and it would hit like you were prone aiming). You see advertisements for hacks on things like you tube ect.

I think many people hack. Because the hack sites i come across have ALOT of members subscribing to a monthly payment. I think many people just use the hacks that aren't easily detectable (Enemy's on the map and Enemy name tags). So when i see a good player i really don't know if he is ACTUALLY good... Theres a member of my clan in 2142 that i am pretty sure hacks. These sites have a crew of coders that are paid to keep up with punkbuster and always be one step ahead of them. It sucks and i think it should be illeagle.

http://realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24366

That makes me wonder about a lot of you defending this practice.

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2007-08-01 15:17

geogob wrote:I'm really getting sick of people protecting cheaters. I have issues about people accusing without proof cheaters, but I have even more issues with those who defend people who get caught or admit they are cheating.

Looking back at older threads, I see this is not the first time some of you defend people cheating.

As for the type of cheating discussed here, may I remind you of the case of a player called $TeALth.BLaDe, aka as StealthUK on these forums and Solo on some other forums.

That guy was caught by PB and banned.

reason:

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24439

Putting a dot on your screen to play even a single round online is cheating enough for a global ban. That it's not possible to detect easily doesn't change a thing about what it is.

Really, the arguments I saw some of you post to defend this action are really making me wonder. I thought this community was fairly clean of such lame BS up to now. I'm really disappointed as it is not the kind of community I want to be part of, one that defends people who get caught or admit they are cheating or cheated in the past.

I'm sorry, but how ever you put it, there is no excuse for cheating. There is no good reasons for cheating. There are no acceptable reasons not to ban you if you do. Period.

There should never be any discussion about this. The day you start to slack off on cheaters is the day the game dies.

Hackers defending hackers or pointing out hacking in general to make themselves fell "clean" is fairly common. Hackers also like to think many people hack to remove the guilt they have deep in them for doing so. Let me cite the same guy again as example:

http://realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24366

That makes me wonder about a lot of you defending this practice.

Well I'm not quite sure how to feel about your attitude toward this issue. Except to say, I want some of the drugs you are on. If you think for one moment that putting a dot on a screen is in any way on the same level as the guy that goes out and purchases a f*cking Hack program that has all kinds of aimbots and name hacks and **** like that in it. How bout the guys that change their names in game, and for some reason can't get banned cause they also purchased a program to hack up the banning ability of a server.
I'm totally with you about stamping out cheaters, I say to hell with all of them. If you wanna hang some knucklehead for putting a dot on his screen you are on your own. That DOT you are so worked up about can't possibly provide any advantage to the player. If it gave an unfair advantage then I would be the first to say "ban", but it doesn't so banning doesn't get my vote.
And for you to imply that anyone that defends a "cheater" is a "cheater" themselves. Well that just makes me wanna rip off your head and **** down your neck! In a virtual sense of course

Thems fightin words!

vanity · Post by **vanity** » 2007-08-01 15:32

The rationality that "if you defend a [title] then that means you're a [title] too" is horrifically shortsighted and juvenile.

Some of you guys need to relax. A member of your own community owns up to something and explains himself and you're ready to throw him and everyone who sides with him off the ship. Chill out. These are your friends and play-mates you're so quick to stab.

Red Halibut · Post by **Red Halibut** » 2007-08-01 15:51

Hear Hear, Vanity.

We all hate cheating, that's a given, but let's stop reacting to this like it was child pornography. It's no worse than going down to the range and zero-ing in your weapon.

Sure, if he kept the dot on then you're right to say "Hey, that's lame, stop it", but for one round? To try and improve your game?

This is not the same as installing a hack with a red dot, so let's not start using the slippery slope argument or any of the other logical fallacies I've seen trotted out here.

VipersGhost, you won't find me condemning you for trying to up your game and I trust you when you say you did it for a round and one round only. Now, does anyone want to pillory me for my views? If so, my PM inbox is waiting.

geogob · Post by **geogob** » 2007-08-01 15:53

Rico11b, the guy (StealthUK) admitted he used a hack to put a crosshair on his screen (see highlighted part of the first quote). I do not see how this is any different than drawing a dot on your screen. One is software. The other is physical/hardware. Result is the same. Severity is the same.

Whether you use a software or any other method to achieve the same thing is irrelevant, don't you think?

Vanity, I said it is common behavior for cheaters to defend themselves and I also state that I've seen a big correlation between cheaters and people defending other cheaters. This is a statement based on my own observations during over 10 years of gaming.

What my experience tels me is that I should worry about people defending cheaters. There's nothing childish about that.

A long while back I administrated a few servers and it was a common practice for me to do checkups on people actively defending cheaters on forum. Only once it turned out to be negative; all others turned out to be cheating some way or another.

So call me paranoid, call me juvenile, rip my head off... but I trust my experience.

No I'm not saying you are cheating. I said it makes me wonder about your attitude towards cheating and that I would be careful about your in-game behavior. If you are not cheating, I bow to you for your indulgence towards these people. With the horrible experiences I had in the past, I simply can't tolerate the slightest mishap anymore.

geogob · Post by **geogob** » 2007-08-01 15:57

Red Halibut wrote:This is not the same as installing a hack with a red dot[...]

Please explain to me how this is any different other than the mean of achieving this?

Red dot in the middle of the screen rendered by software overlay vs. red do in the middle of the screen physically drawn...

Different method of achieving the same result. So please, by all mean, explain to me how this is any different. Why would be one considered cheating and severe enough for a global lifetime ban and the other not?

Red Halibut · Post by **Red Halibut** » 2007-08-01 15:57

I am a member of two gaming communities, both of which have a mandatory expulsion for cheating. [CoFR] and |CGA|. I sit on the Board of Trustees for one of those organisations and am the website and server administrator for the other. One has a minimum age of 21, the other 25, and each has over 400 active members. I consider many of the members of those organisations to be friends. Real-life friends who I have met and drank with. They are all against cheating. I assure you, I do not cheat.

Right, having said that (which actually means nothing in real life, let's face it) geogob if that dot was there all the time I'd agree with you, it would be lame, but read what was written by the OP. Please.

I have a hard-line stance on cheating, but I don't believe that moniker sticks in this instance.

EDIT, in response to your post Geogob, The difference is the intent and the extent.

The intent in installing a hack is to cheat, the extent of a hack is its use in every round. The intent of drawing a dot on the screen in this case was to check iron sight alignment, the extent was one round. There is the difference.

Dunstwolke · Post by **Dunstwolke** » 2007-08-01 15:59

A bit more back on topic:

I noticed I am far less good shot with the M16 zoomed than with any other scoped rifle in game. As the engagement ranges increase a broad-post sign like the M16's makes it far easier to miss, especially if the round doesn't go center, as the original poster tried to proof.

I know the M16 will get a real scope somewhen next version (once it gets released, which will probably be in a few months), but until then we'll have to deal.

Unless it's reasonable to ask for a little patch in between simply adding the new weapon-1st person model etc so we can play on even ground with the other armies again.

geogob · Post by **geogob** » 2007-08-01 16:13

Red Halibut, I undestand your point. Intent is important. Here he states that (and I read his post) his intent was to test for iron sights offsets. This doesn't fit too well with his original affirmation in that other thread.

The words that started all this discussion were the following:

I've put a red dot on my screen(marker) when fighting with the M16 and it helps...but its not insanely better.

Within these words, I don't see the intent of testing weapon offsets but the intent of improving in-game performance using artificial methods. But i have to admit that the intent was not 100% clear in that line so I'm going to trust his word when he says he did it for testing purpose only.

On the other hand I still to get how a dot is required for that testing purpose nor do I get why this testing had to be online game. But that's another story. I can accept he did it for testing and can let that go.

What I can't let go and what infuriates me is other people defending the practice.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-08-01 16:40

Look, this is truely turning into an insane witch hunt. I get it, you are really suspect that I'm the leet-marker haxor of lore. My first post was mearely used to inforce my point that the adding of the scope to the M16 is not going to be enough to beat the G3-domination...I used my experience from Al Jabar with the dot to prove it. I'm not some random idiot...I'm on here everyday. If you threw that post out in a forum I'd hardly blink an eye, for SURE if I did have an issue I'd ask you about it first instead of damming you....thanks friend, much appreciated. Go ahead and slander a good, decent community member that actually appreciates the game and works to better it. I explained myself in full order even when I didn't have to because I respect the people on here and it's important they know. I had a perfectly good reason for putting that damn dot on there and in NO WAY regret doing it except for this BS non-sense you have put up here. OH WAIT I could do it in Single-player...wrong. The game is drastically un-finished in areas so I had to figure out on my own where my damn gun shoots, whys that such a big deal? Everyone should figure that out, I did and have been telling lots of guys about it in-game...damn me for trying to be helpful. If you think I'm a cheater, then take your proof to a server admin and shut your mouth. I'm tired of this non-sense, it has no place on here. When a cheater is accused on here its pointless unless you have PB screenshots etc etc....even if you do it has no place on here. Go to the admins, get me banned please and shutup. This is just stupid now. BTW Thanks to all the mature players out there who actually have a brain.

vanity · Post by **vanity** » 2007-08-01 16:41

Geogob,

The entire experience of project reality and battlefield 2 is purely choice. People have the choice to choose to play fairly (which we like) or choose to cheat in whatever manner they wish (which we don't like).

By freaking out and calling for bans, check-ups, accusing others of cheating, and general psuedo-tyrant behavior, you're going to find yourself seeing an INCREASE in cheaters. Why? Because you're an ******* about it and they'll do it just to piss you off. You've got a bad attitude, you're trying to wield power you don't have, and it's easy to get you riled up.

That sucks for the rest of us b/c it ruins our game when they decide to cheat to piss off people like you. I don't want cheaters anymore than you but I realize that we cannot FORCE THEM to do the right thing. It's a choice. We want to encourage them to play how we play so it's a fun experience for everyone involved.

In a Choice Theory world, this is the preferred option:
"Hey guys, we're trying to keep a pretty solid community here where we don't cheat and use markers and hacks. It's important to our gameplay and we think you'll like the game better if you do this too. Otherwise, there's plenty other servers for you to try that stuff on"

You're powerless against their choice, so threats are meaningless. They're a joke and it causes people to go in the opposite direction you're shooting for.

Post by **bosco_** » 2007-08-01 16:45

Appeasement politics failed before in history...

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2007-08-01 17:42

geogob wrote:What I can't let go and what infuriates me is other people defending the practice.

Was not defending the practice (nor what he did), but was defending the man himself whom has never given me any reason to wonder if he was cheating while playing online.

He's not some noob from vBF2 that was dominating using cheats and now wants to come and dominate PR while rubbing it in our faces that we can't stop him. He's been around a little while.
I totally agree with your stance on cheating, and I respect it too. Hell I if get proof someone is cheating, I'll be glad to hold them down so you can lop off their heads. Please don't make more of this than it needs to be. You really are making a mountain out of mole hill here.

Don't let the "terrorism of cheating and hacking" cause you to live in fear of it. If you do, then you are "letting" them win. Cheaters will ALWAYS reveal themselves in game, so you don't have to go hunting for them.

geogob · Post by **geogob** » 2007-08-01 17:49

Viper Ghost. Read my last post again.

As I said, I still think it was a bad idea to test things like that on public servers in actual games, but I can accept that the intent was testing and not cheating. Hence, I retract my initial comment about you cheating.

What makes me really angry are the replies in the following discussion.
Vanity's last post is a good example. Again, trying to take what ever silly argument to justify cheating and increase in cheating.

Like if people cheated because they are not accepted in the community. Or bacause I can't accept it on any form. That just trying to justify their actions by all possible means. That's quite low in my book.

Anyway, I'm out of here. I've had enough of this ****.

Sorry again ViperGhost, I hope your testing turned out interesting. If you ever want to test something using artificial methods, just PM and I'll arrange for you to test it with a few people on a private closed server. Not on a public server. A public server, unless specifically created for that purpose is not the place for testing, and especially not using tools usually meant to cheat. I hope your understand. So, next time, just PM me and we'll do it the right way and avoid silly discussions.