During the beta I loved to play on Mesita. The Militia was new and shiny, and it was great. After playing a while though, I feel AAS is a poor execution of this map.
Not pointing any fingers, as I figured it was like Basrah in .5, where AAS is a place holder for something else to just get the map "out there".
During the beta the map had no description but upon release they gave us one! Basically for those who have not read it, the British are trying to stop some black market weapon shipments. Seems like a good idea, I guess, though I do wonder if they send the full fledged army after stuff like that?
Anyway, I feel Mesita should have a game mode similar to Insurgency mode. There are two major places on that map, Storage Bunker and the Munitions plant. I think a majority of this map should be defending those two positions from the GB advance. After those two are down GB has to secure their main base.
For this, the capturable points should be the two towers and the main base. Munitions plant is a nonspawnable uncap, as is Storage bunker, though maybe allow them to spawn there at the very beginning but not afterwards. Main base keeps it's current kits, as do the towers, but storage gets a few extra plus a load more ammo (or a really large cache). Perhaps make the target at Storage a load of caches and at Munitions a machine of some sort.
Mesita and AAS.
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Expendable Grunt
- Posts: 4730
- Joined: 2007-03-09 01:54
Mesita and AAS.
Former [DM] captain.
The fact that people are poor or discriminated against doesn't necessarily endow them with any special qualities of justice, nobility, charity or compassion. - Saul Alinsky
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Soulis6
- Posts: 452
- Joined: 2007-02-17 12:31
I completely agree. I used to like playing Mestia when it was first out but now i try to avoid it.
It seems like 90% of the time i play this map it just becomes way to spammy. One or two squads attacking a place over and over again with the other side defending it, dying, reinforcing and repeating until it finally falls or the map ends. I've had rounds where for more then 9/10ths of the time we were constantly fighting over the storage depot, with our rally being to the north and theirs to the south somewhere. We couldn't get close to each others rally because every 10-20 secs or so someone would die and respawn there. It was like playing vanilla all over again with stronger weapons.
I blame rallypoints for this, but i have a rather negative view on RPs. If it were up to me they would be completely removed, or they wouldn't be able to be placed anywhere even remotely close to CP, like 300 + meters ("thats too far!" you might cry or "there wont even be room to place them anymore!," and maybe not but its how i feel. If there is not enough room then room needs to be made).
Of course its not up me though so I can't really do anything about it.
But in the meantime, i think this map could certainly benefit from a different game mode like you describe above. I know russians are going to be added later, maybe we can get some changes when this happens?
It seems like 90% of the time i play this map it just becomes way to spammy. One or two squads attacking a place over and over again with the other side defending it, dying, reinforcing and repeating until it finally falls or the map ends. I've had rounds where for more then 9/10ths of the time we were constantly fighting over the storage depot, with our rally being to the north and theirs to the south somewhere. We couldn't get close to each others rally because every 10-20 secs or so someone would die and respawn there. It was like playing vanilla all over again with stronger weapons.
I blame rallypoints for this, but i have a rather negative view on RPs. If it were up to me they would be completely removed, or they wouldn't be able to be placed anywhere even remotely close to CP, like 300 + meters ("thats too far!" you might cry or "there wont even be room to place them anymore!," and maybe not but its how i feel. If there is not enough room then room needs to be made).
Of course its not up me though so I can't really do anything about it.
But in the meantime, i think this map could certainly benefit from a different game mode like you describe above. I know russians are going to be added later, maybe we can get some changes when this happens?
Last edited by Soulis6 on 2007-08-04 10:25, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: outlawz being a bitch :)
Reason: outlawz being a bitch :)
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DJJ-Terror
- Posts: 671
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Deer
- Posts: 1603
- Joined: 2005-03-17 09:31
I have noticed that ppls doesnt even think "where is enemy coming from" so much. I always try to figure which direction they are coming from and then i take some slams or C4 or steal those from dead enemy, and i go destroy their spawnpoint.
Does others even think about ignoring flag and going for spawnpoint ? Surely both sides will be fighting over the flag forever if nobody tries to destroy enemy rally points or bunker or truck etc. Imagine if another side would be fighting for the flags, and another side is trying to destroy enemy spawn locations before they go for the flags, which side would win ?
Does others even think about ignoring flag and going for spawnpoint ? Surely both sides will be fighting over the flag forever if nobody tries to destroy enemy rally points or bunker or truck etc. Imagine if another side would be fighting for the flags, and another side is trying to destroy enemy spawn locations before they go for the flags, which side would win ?
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Soulis6
- Posts: 452
- Joined: 2007-02-17 12:31
Yea but don't you think thats a problem Deer? Should your main 'goal' really be to hunt down their rally point all the time? Isn't it a little hypocritical that flag spawning is taken out because it's poor gameplay to be attacking someplace where they can spawn, only to replicate this in turn with RPs?
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Deer
- Posts: 1603
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Expendable Grunt
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Soulis6
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ArmedDrunk&Angry
- Posts: 6945
- Joined: 2006-07-14 07:10
The problem is that people don't look at the map and don't know about the bleed.
All the problems you described are present on other maps although I haven't seen as many one sided battles.
What I have seen, like last night, was the heroes that cap East and West and then abandon them to move on to storage and munitions.
They of course quickly gray those flags because the militia is on their way to towers.
Now the towers fall but the squads at the next flags remain there " to keep it neutral " they say, but meanwhile the militia can focus all their efforts on the towers, retaking them before storage and munitions fall and bleeding the British out.
Last night, for the last 15 min of the game we have brutal assaults on the towers that gained a foothold only to be pushed off by militia while over half the team was occupying flags that were useless.
I call them the grayknights now, always willing to fight an invisible enemy and remain in a position that the battle has passed on because " we're waiting for you to take x flag ", completely ignoring the fact that they are not under attack because all the enemy is focusing on the flags that matter and ignoring the fools at the gray flags.
This happens because people don't think, the same as when they don't flank the munitions plant and waste the enemy spawns during the flanking maneuver, thereby allowing themselves the time to settle in and take the flag while the squads that lost their RP must come all the way from rebel base in order to reestablish the RP and counterattack the flag.
300 meter radius rally points simply would not work on most maps because it would funnel all the RP into the same areas making them too vulnerable.
All the problems you described are present on other maps although I haven't seen as many one sided battles.
What I have seen, like last night, was the heroes that cap East and West and then abandon them to move on to storage and munitions.
They of course quickly gray those flags because the militia is on their way to towers.
Now the towers fall but the squads at the next flags remain there " to keep it neutral " they say, but meanwhile the militia can focus all their efforts on the towers, retaking them before storage and munitions fall and bleeding the British out.
Last night, for the last 15 min of the game we have brutal assaults on the towers that gained a foothold only to be pushed off by militia while over half the team was occupying flags that were useless.
I call them the grayknights now, always willing to fight an invisible enemy and remain in a position that the battle has passed on because " we're waiting for you to take x flag ", completely ignoring the fact that they are not under attack because all the enemy is focusing on the flags that matter and ignoring the fools at the gray flags.
This happens because people don't think, the same as when they don't flank the munitions plant and waste the enemy spawns during the flanking maneuver, thereby allowing themselves the time to settle in and take the flag while the squads that lost their RP must come all the way from rebel base in order to reestablish the RP and counterattack the flag.
300 meter radius rally points simply would not work on most maps because it would funnel all the RP into the same areas making them too vulnerable.
And as the windshield melts
My tears evaporate
Leaving only charcoal to defend.
Finally I understand the feelings of the few.
My tears evaporate
Leaving only charcoal to defend.
Finally I understand the feelings of the few.
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Outlawz7
- Retired PR Developer
- Posts: 17261
- Joined: 2007-02-17 14:59
I watched a BFR of USMC assaulting Bridge on Jabal, running around like chickens, while a MEC sniper fired shots at them and a USMC RP right next to him.
Or spawning on my squad's RP on Daqing, just as we lost a CP near the RP, I check around and see the enemy squad's RP right down in the ditch near our's...
What I really hate, when people don't know, they can destroy a RP with a knife, then camp it.
Or just camp it to get kills
Or spawning on my squad's RP on Daqing, just as we lost a CP near the RP, I check around and see the enemy squad's RP right down in the ditch near our's...
What I really hate, when people don't know, they can destroy a RP with a knife, then camp it.
Or just camp it to get kills
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ArmedDrunk&Angry
- Posts: 6945
- Joined: 2006-07-14 07:10
Well the maps are getting larger but I don't see a large problem with rally points that would not also exist with any sort of mobile spawn.
It's not my mod either, I just like the way it plays and every release it gets better.
It's not my mod either, I just like the way it plays and every release it gets better.
And as the windshield melts
My tears evaporate
Leaving only charcoal to defend.
Finally I understand the feelings of the few.
My tears evaporate
Leaving only charcoal to defend.
Finally I understand the feelings of the few.
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ArmedDrunk&Angry
- Posts: 6945
- Joined: 2006-07-14 07:10
Changing spawn points won't make people pay attention to the overall situation any better.
IMHO it's more attempts to dumb down the game rather than rise to the challenge.
I get frustrated too largely because I play too much and I can see when a game is goin to be a total clusterfunk right at the start.
Mestia is one map where you can recover from stupid mistakes but Kashan isn't and to some extent EJOD is about the middle of those two, leaning more to the Kashan side.
But a lot of this is because the learning curve is pretty steep and CO assets are such a key part of most maps.
I hope with time more people will learn to work together not just in squads but between squads.
IMHO it's more attempts to dumb down the game rather than rise to the challenge.
I get frustrated too largely because I play too much and I can see when a game is goin to be a total clusterfunk right at the start.
Mestia is one map where you can recover from stupid mistakes but Kashan isn't and to some extent EJOD is about the middle of those two, leaning more to the Kashan side.
But a lot of this is because the learning curve is pretty steep and CO assets are such a key part of most maps.
I hope with time more people will learn to work together not just in squads but between squads.
And as the windshield melts
My tears evaporate
Leaving only charcoal to defend.
Finally I understand the feelings of the few.
My tears evaporate
Leaving only charcoal to defend.
Finally I understand the feelings of the few.
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Expendable Grunt
- Posts: 4730
- Joined: 2007-03-09 01:54
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101 bassdrive
- Posts: 514
- Joined: 2007-02-20 15:04
I dont believe we can judge the gameplay of any map yet. there are simply to many newcomers thining out the teamplay and on maps like mestia where the severity is higher it becomes more blatant.
on the offtopic RP stuff.. cmon gimme a break about that 300m radius suggestion. thats a pragmatic dumbdown solution. whatd happen would be after 2 weeks youd know exactly where to search for them.
Im still for the RPspawncount limitation.
and about RP and mestia.. the militia one is veryvery stealthy. you stumble over it befor you can spot it + it for some reason is invulnerable against knife hits.
the radiochatter in general doesnt help much neither since it hasnt this warmwarmerhot! feeling to it. I cant tell if a RP chatter is 100m or 10m away, unfortunatly.
meh, itll get better. if it helps, always reckon with militia from north. flanking is for tactical pussies, ye know.
on the offtopic RP stuff.. cmon gimme a break about that 300m radius suggestion. thats a pragmatic dumbdown solution. whatd happen would be after 2 weeks youd know exactly where to search for them.
Im still for the RPspawncount limitation.
and about RP and mestia.. the militia one is veryvery stealthy. you stumble over it befor you can spot it + it for some reason is invulnerable against knife hits.
the radiochatter in general doesnt help much neither since it hasnt this warmwarmerhot! feeling to it. I cant tell if a RP chatter is 100m or 10m away, unfortunatly.
meh, itll get better. if it helps, always reckon with militia from north. flanking is for tactical pussies, ye know.
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youm0nt
- Posts: 4642
- Joined: 2007-03-16 15:13
Yeah, I had that happen once on Seven Gates, some British soldiers found our rally point and I died right near it so I saw the kill camera switch to their position and they apparently didn't destroy our rally point when they had the chance (idiots). So I respawn on rally point and killed both of them.Outlawz wrote:What I really hate, when people don't know, they can destroy a RP with a knife, then camp it.
Or just camp it to get kills
([COLOR="Yellow"]o,o)
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O RLY?
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O RLY?
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DavidP
- Posts: 951
- Joined: 2007-03-23 04:20
No! Dont remove AAS from Mestia! I dont know why people complain about the brits never being able to win. It's the same as Basrah in .5 people wanna be US/UK because they want to fly the Heli's or they think the Apc's are like bulldozers, I say leave it at as is! It never takes one good squad to win on AAS but the same cant be said for Insurgency or Extraction.
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