Guide to Spec Ops

[Mongolian_dude]

You then challenge me to a 1 on 1 where you have an open fire lane of 200m. As you would say; "Completely contradictory".

I'll place my spec-ops kit against anyone in the forrest or in an urban area.

Que?

I could see someone going into the center of a town square and ringing a bell to announce 'I'll place my spec-ops kit against anyone!...' Very much seems a challenge to me. Btw, i doubt i would go through with it lol.

In regards to my "Rambo" comment I was simply pointing out that any kit can be used by the online rambo's to run off on their merry adventures towards a quick dirt nap. SF kit is hardly alone there.

Yes, this is definitely true, but SF is the Icon of lone wolves and smacktardary, as most would porbly agree with me, its because 7/10 those players that are, choose SF.

Could be worse....could be another helo whore who unloads his rockets into friendlies at the first sign of a flag going white....again.

Seems like a dig at me, but i cant be sure for certain.

...mongol...

[Metis-M]

SF-kit is nothing, only noob lonewolf would take this poor kit.
SF-kit is only good when you play on US side in close combat.

[LeadMagnet]

Hehehehe, a few months back you smoked my entire squad on Al Bas at the factory when you made a rocket pass. I'll never forget seeing our bodies fly over the damn wall and some guy in the squad on VOIP "Damn devs don't even check the radar!". We all had a good laugh at that one. ;}

[Mongolian_dude]

Hehehehe, a few months back you smoked my entire squad on Al Bas at the factory when you made a rocket pass. I'll never forget seeing our bodies fly over the damn wall and some guy in the squad on VOIP "Damn devs don't even check the radar!". We all had a good laugh at that one. ;}

I done worse since!
What rly screws me up is flying in AmrA, then PR......You end up looking like a drunk wasp.

...mongol...

[Biggaayal]

As someone in this thread suggested, giving the spec ops parachutes would be a great way of making them a little more useful, would bring back the possibility of using para-drops for insertions,and woudl bring back a great feature of the bf2 engine.

[headhunter8982]

Yeah I agree with the crowd on this one that SF kits are close to useless. I can see the designers were trying to emulate real life SF which mainly observe the enemy position, destroy specific targets like bridges along with other tasks in a supporting roll for conventional forces. Also the lack of body armor show that these are not front line troops, in fact special forces are most successful when they complete their mission without engaging the enemy as stealth is their greatest ally deep behind enemy lines. However the kit is too useless so i think these additions to the kit would make SF a valuable member of a squad. (on some maps)
Some of these have been previously suggested by others as well.

1. binoculars where you could see the range of targets. (what the hell are they called again?)
2. 2-3 flashbangs
3. grappling hook
4. an extra field dressing or two

This doesn't give SF kit any addition fire power or make them worthy to be a restricted kit as they are already the weakest kit of them all. Still keeping true to the equipment likely to be used by SF.

Possible 5. parachute
I’m from Australia and i know that our SF like the SAS and Commandos are required to be deployable by air and i can only assume that the US and UK would be exactly the same.
On that note maybe they should add commander drop zones; a temporary spawn point where you parachute in. could be a nice little feature for certain maps.


Another thought i had just now was maybe a team should have 1 SF squad with SF kits. Like an engineer, medic, marksman SF kit, the rifleman SF kit could basically just be the currant SF kit. The kits could be more suitable to going behind enemy lines & avoiding detection/firefights to destroy commander assets and ultimately give the enemy a headache. This would also be a lot more realistic than SF in squads with conventional troops yeah? I have no idea how this would be incorporated into the game or how effective it would be but meh just a thought.

Bottom line either fix SF up or get rid of it!
.. and yeah sure noobs straight from BF2 will still grab the SF kit but hey least maybe some actual players might grab one and kick some ***, ya dig?

[Skullening.Chris]

As someone in this thread suggested, giving the spec ops parachutes would be a great way of making them a little more useful, would bring back the possibility of using para-drops for insertions,and woudl bring back a great feature of the bf2 engine.

Ugh no, the parachutes were so lame.
A squad would just fly a helo as high as possible over a flag and then a constant stream of spec op nerds would keep dropping on your flag until someone bothered to take your own helo and ram theirs. More of a nuisance but also very gamey.

[Saobh]

The replacement of the C4 by timed slams has pretty much nutted the SF kit.
But it can come in handy at some times in accomplishing objectives where there is a good chance your going to die anyway. Say your squad/team is having a hard time against a tight enemy position (ex. the bunkers on Mestia) in the thick of the firefight position yourself at 2 seconds running distance from your objective, wait for a small opening, then dash for it and mark the home run with your 2 slams. 15 seconds later the enemy will have forgotten about you and taken back their defensive positions .... and BoOM

I've been able to clear enough a defensive position in order for the next push be accomplished before they respawn back.

This also works for destroying key enemy assets (bridges, RP, Command posts etc) even while heavily defended as you usually don't have time to trigger the C4 even when you manage to get to your objective, the timed slams get the job done.

Talking of Mestia, while our whole team had been pushed back to their last flag (Militia side) I took out a british SF (for a strange reason 1/3 of them seemd to be SF ) ran to the main entry where they where fighting hard to enter, dropped some smokes and used those few seconds to burst out and drop my 2 slams a couple of steps outside before getting shot down.
I then happily stayed in my corpse view to watch a squads worth of men get blown to pieces. We still lost, but man did that make my day

So there are useful things to make out of it, its peoples imagination which is rather lacking.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

That's what I hate about Mestia.
When you kill a Brit and want a snazzy scoped rifle you most often end up with the SF gun, no armor and no ability to aid your squadmates.
To make them realistic in the stealth area they need suppressed weapon, even just a pistol would make them useful in infiltrating rear areas and destroying assets.
As it stands now when I want to play SF Rambo I use the engineer kit because of the C4 and on most maps the AT mines are good for creating some havoc.

[BlackwaterEddie]

They do have a stealth weapon, its called a knife.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

LOL
the best defense is to be out of range.

[Outlawz7]

Well, from all the suggestions what to give to Spec Ops class, this sounds exactly like the Spec OP in PRM 0.4.

We're at 0.6 now, so this would be a step back to gameyness than realism (0.6 > 0.4)

[fuzzhead]

Advanced Special Forces Operations by Outlawz

I am writing this as an advanced guide to performing sabotage missions and disrupting enemy supply lines.
I am aware, that there is already a guide on sabotage, but with battlefields getting bigger and more complicated, new tactics are required.


== Notes, Tips and Tactics ==

-You cannot use enemy vehicles at all. You can use some emplaced weapons, such as M249 on bunkers

-You can resupply ammo from both friendly and enemy vehicles in limited amounts. If the vehicle's ammo cache has already been depleted, you will not be able to obtain any more ammo.

-Vehicle husks also provide ammo, but in very very small amounts, along with high risk of wounding yourself or having the vehicle husk blow up in your face

-You can get ammo from ammo dumps and caches. It is advisable that ammo caches are the last item you destroy when "cleaning" the area of enemy assets.

-Enemy vehicles respawn and if they are not going to be used for an extended period of time, it is advisable to 1.) leave them alone or 2.) placing a land mine underneath them. '''Note, that land mines expire after 10 minutes when the player who placed them dies.'''
It is advisable to keep Combat Engineers (who can place mines) alive.

== Equipment and Kits ==

There are different tactics, on how to perform sabotage missions.
I will explain, how each kit contributes to the sabotage squad.

DEFAULT KITS

'''Spec Ops'''
''-equipment consists of a knife, sidearm, a light carbine, smoke grenades and 2 M2 Slams.''

The most important item in the load out is the M2 Slam, which is an explosive device with a timer of 15 seconds. That means, the charge detonates 15 seconds after the Slam has been placed. Slams do about 1/2 of the C4 damage.

'''Rifleman'''
''
-equipment consists of a knife, shovel, rifle, smoke grenades, hand grenades and an ammo pack.''

Rifleman is the backbone of any conventional army. His skills and loadout are useful in situations, where you can expect small/medium enemy infantry resistance. The ammo pack provides little amount of ammo and should be only used in utmost situations.

'''Combat Engineer'''
''-equipment consists of a knife, rifle, 1-2 Antitank mines, one pack of C4 and a wrench for repairing vehicles and disarming enemy land mines.''

Combat Engineer is very handy in mechanized infantry roles. Supports vehicles and armor, blows up enemy assets and places land mines on important choke points and roads...
However, in sabotage missions, our main interest is disabling and destroying enemy assets with the C4 charge and AT mines.

'''Medic:'''
''-equipment consists of a knife, rifle, medic pack, defibrillator and smoke grenades.''

Medic/Corpsman is your guardian angel in firefights. But his role in sabotage missions comes handy, when youre expecting heavy enemy resistance and/or need to keep your squad alive. If your sabotage squad holds any important kits/weapons, such as sniper rifle/heavy antitank/ anti air etc... a Medic in a squad is a must.

LIMITED KITS

'''Anti-air'''
Useful, when you're expecting enemy air assets in the area, looking for you.
Can only be request from a supply drop, an APC, commander assets (?) or main base.

'''Light Anti-tank'''
Whenever dealing with light vehicles, this kit a must.
Can be request from supply drop, an APC, main base, commander assets and a rally point

'''Heavy Anti-tank'''
If sabotaging enemy armored vehicles or expecting enemy armor patrolling the area, this weapon can save your life from being shredded apart.
Can be request from supply drop, an APC, main base and commander assets (?)

'''Sniper'''
When on the hunt after high tier targets, this weapon will do the job for you. Also useful, when eliminating enemy infantry ''from a distance''.

Can be request from a supply drop, an APC, main base, commander assets and a rally point


Rest, which we wont be using in order to keep them available for the main battle force, are:
-Grenadier
-Marksman
-Support
-Crewman
-Pilot

== Tactics ==

'''1.) One-man squad'''

Player starts a squad and locks it down to prevent more people joining.
A good kit to use for this role is either Spec Op or Combat Engineer.
Player performs sabotages by himself and keeps contact with the commander, providing intel on any enemy movement.
This tactic is good for stealth, as you dont draw attention as much as whole squad, but not effective, when it comes to large sabotage operations, where you need support.

'''2.) Two or Three man team'''

A good combination of kits:

A:
-Spec Op
-Spec Op
-Rifleman

B:
-Spec Op
-Rifleman
-Engineer

C:
-Spec Op/Engineer
-Rifleman
-Medic

Effective level depends on, how you choose the kits.
Having engineers will allow you to get rid of big stuff, such as vehicles and bridges, while Spec Ops would be only good for dealing with emplacements, ammo caches, light vehicles and so on.
Having a Medic in a squad can extend your life duration during missions.
Most effective loadout would be C, altough speed level is decreased, comparing to A, since you have only one person, that can blow up something at a time.

'''3.) Four man squad'''
With four people in the squad, you can start placing down rally points and you can stay on the battlefield, since you can launch operations out of anywhere.

Kit combination:

A:
-Officer (squad leader)
-Spec Op/Engineer
-Rifleman
-medic

or

B:
-Spec Op/Engineer
-Spec Op/Engineer
-Medic
-Rifleman

Again, B combination would be faster, while A would have better chances when encountering enemy resistance.
Utilizing both combinations would be the best, altough if you need to move the rally point around a lot, A combination is better.

'''4.) SF squad'''
Imagine a sabotage squad as a four man team, only the other two slots are occupied with special limited kits. Again, those could be: Sniper, Heavy AT and Anti-Air, depending on the situation.

[fuzzhead]

Sabatoge Operations in Enemy Territory by Wasteland

I’ve come to work out a fairly reasonable procedure for attacking the enemy where they least expect it, and will present it as a procedure with numbered steps.

1) Join a server with a large number of players, like 50+. Otherwise you really can’t justify the opportunity cost of an operation like this. The map should have artillery, otherwise this kind of operation is rather useless.

2) Pick out a route to the enemy’s main base that avoids the area where the battle is actually taking place. It’s usually best to spawn one flag back from the front lines in order to facilitate this.

3) Follow this route until you’re behind the “danger zone”.

4) Form a squad. Best to call it something like VOIP/SNEAK if you plan on leaving it open. However, it’s usually best to lock it if you know enough people on the server to populate the squad with good players who will follow orders. You want to wait until now to form the squad because you don’t want people spawning on you when you’re at the greatest risk of revealing yourself. And your new squadmates are probably better off fighting on the front line than waiting around unspawned for you to get past the danger zone.

5) Your squad needs to have at least the following:

~Spec Ops (the most essential element)

~Medic (actually not *completely* essential, but certainly a good idea)

The following are optional:

~Heavy AT (failing that, light AT may suffice)

~Rifleman (because your guys can probably reload in enemy jeeps/vodniks)

~DM/Sniper (DM would probably be preferable)

It is important to remember that any troops you have now are troops that won’t be on the front lines, and so you should minimize the number of troops you use as a result. Only use what yout think you'll need. And if to be honest, all you *need* for the sabatoging stage is yourself as a single lone wolfing spec-ops. But if you think you may need more guys in order to complete your mission, then fill out your squad accordingly.

6) As you approach the back base, you should move together cautiously but quickly. Your AT should take point with the spec ops, and with the DM if you have one. This way they can quickly engage the threats you’re likely to encounter (straggler infantry, vehicles/armor, and long-range targets).

7) After you’ve ransacked their back base you’ll want to harass the enemies from their flank. If the main battle is taking place in a built-up area, or if there is aircraft supporting the enemy, then you may want a limited kit or two in your squad (such as support or AA) later. So on your way to the enemy back base, order a supply crate in a safe area that you’ll pass on your way back. You need to be fairly confident that the main battle won’t reach this area in the time it takes you to ransack the enemy back base and make your way back to the battle.

Upon reaching the enemy base, your men should hang back and hide. Your AT should take up a position overlooking the base, in case he needs to support your spec ops soldier.

9) Your spec ops soldier needs to enter the base alone. He should use any stationary TOW launchers to take out all the unmanned vehicles except for the jeeps/vodniks (he’ll need them to reload). He should then take out any APCs and armor that are outside of the TOW launchers’ range of site. This way an enemy soldier can’t surprise him, and the enemies won’t have access to these assets until they respawn. At this point your DM can join the AT man in overlooking the base.

10) Your spec ops guy should now concentrate on destroying all the artillery. It takes two SLAMs to blow up a piece of artillery.

11) Now destroy any AA. The TOWs can probably stay, as the main battle shouldn’t reach back here any time soon.

12) This whole time, your spec ops soldier will have to reload many times. He should try to use the same jeep/vodnik to reload each time, as they seem to run out after a while. Before leaving, he should drive the vodnik/jeep he’s been using (if there’s more than one) into range of a TOW launcher and blow that.

13) Your squad should now pile into the remaining jeep/vodnik and drive off to your supply crate, which should have landed by now (if you needed one). There someone can pick up a support kit or something.

14) You (the SL) should hide in a building somewhere behind enemy lines, or in some other good hiding place. Your soldiers can attack the enemies from behind. They should employ guerrilla hit and run tactics, so that the enemies are forced to deploy a disproportionate amount of troops to try to deal with your squad. This way your team mates will have an easier time of pushing up. If until now you’ve been operating with only two men (or even more brazenly, by yourself), then this is a good time to invite more men to completely fill out your squad. Make sure to tell your squad not to do anything stupid and give away your position. Note: climbing onto the roof of your current building if you’re in a “house of pain” is stupid.

15) It’s important that your squad keep you notified of the situation. If it looks like the enemy flag may get capped, you need to move back so that you remain in the flank. Remember. Your squad is there to harass. Not to cap. Let the main force cap.

[nicoX]

The thing with SF kit is that most people don't know how to use it. Every noob picks it because it's SF kit and that's WOW. After some while of playing the will figure out that the kit is not advantaged to the other kits. Now they figure they should get the ordinary rifleman kit which (rocks).
PR didn't want SF to be superior to other kits as then everyone would be Rambo.
But still SF can be superior if you know how to use it. It's not meant to have a 6 men INF to be SF. No, you can have one SF in the squad and give him special operations. And SF could be excellent to supervise your RP if it's in a hostile area where you're sure enemy will spot you and run for your RP. Then it's great to have a SF with a wide scope and a stable rifle that will take enemy's out. There are many operations an SF can do and do it good. And not what everyone is expecting him to do being in the front line in a infantry squad.

[Bluedust]

I would like to see the spec ops with a laser range-finder(like they used in Afghanistan). They tell you the exact range to target and can also guide missiles to target..
I think this class could be really cool with the right layout. Many of the most skilled soldiers(such as spec ops, delta force, etc.) are trained in multiple weapons and adjust their layout according to the mission.
Of course allowing us to choose our own equipment would probably be a bit much so I digress..

[nicoX]

Being British in Mestia I would concider a SF squad with 2 SF and 1 engineer. Our task would be to clean mines from the road, take out IED enemies and destroy RP. Mestia is flooded with mines and IED's. And there is only one road that leads west. So it's crucial to clean it. This squad would be ideal as SF you will encounter close combat so you need a wide scoop and a stable rifle. You smoke and cover when your engineer operates disarming mine, here to it's good to have a wide scoop. When taking out RP you cover your engineers when he places an C4 next to it blowing up not just the RP but also an enemy.
You keep a close radio contact with your commander to tell him what's clear and if transport is safe.
3 men is just fine for this operations, you don't need to waste INF, and the chances are bigger to be spotted if you are a big squad.

[Outlawz7]

I would like to see the spec ops with a laser range-finder(like they used in Afghanistan). They tell you the exact range to target and can also guide missiles to target..
I think this class could be really cool with the right layout. Many of the most skilled soldiers(such as spec ops, delta force, etc.) are trained in multiple weapons and adjust their layout according to the mission.
Of course allowing us to choose our own equipment would probably be a bit much so I digress..

Real soldiers may be trained that way or have such equipment, but a 10 year old in his parents basement doesn't.

[boeing314]

Very well put. Something that might make for an interesting future addition may be an Airborne limited kit if we ever get a C-130 (HALO jumps work too, but I figure C-130's are more practical due to the larger payload)or a map in which it would be useful to employ large scale airdrops.

[Dan UK]

I like spec ops, what i find usefull about the kit that other people dont use is the side arm. when you've just emptied a full mag into some one and you change the mag, its a very good idea to have the shift key (or whatever key is most apropriate) set to weild the sidearm. then when you reload your carbine and theres an enemy bunny hopping in your face you can just press shift and be rid of them