TvG TSLaserGuided and other

Mora · Post by **Mora** » 2007-08-21 13:38

as you look at this video: http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid= ... 5151834301

then you see what they see on the monitors and in Pr its doesn't look like it at all

and there are other methods of firing a missile like you do have with the tow in bf vanilla and and a lock on the target and such things. The Cobra in PR only has a TvG missile. In the right conner you can see what kind of method or weapon he use

Jimmy_Smack · Post by **Jimmy_Smack** » 2007-08-21 13:58

Think the Dev's have done a great job with the bottom gunner personally. I dont see what you want changed. Example?

"You are my hated ENEMY!, I am an ENEMY! I MUST OBLITERATE MY ENEMY! OW OW! ENEMY! ENEMY! I MUST ELIMINATE MY ENEMY! OW OW!

Wow, that song was...um...very bad?

arjan · Post by **arjan** » 2007-08-21 15:43

Well he has an point

would like to see new monitors,, and monitors for helo pilot

EDIT: more like this ! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53_AJLTbnUo = AH1Z
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geiqwnNlwkQ = Apache

and maybe an monitor for the pilot where he can see his missiles impact or target

Mora · Post by **Mora** » 2007-08-21 16:22

well i mean deferent modes of firing like on the video he has not only a tvg like in bf vanilla he has other modes like a missile came from above not trade
or the mode that he can lock it on a target or just point shoot and drag it to the target like the tow that will be cool. and the hud is fine but it will be nice if its like as in real life but its ok to me, only deferent modes of firing thats what i ask

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2007-08-21 16:47

deleted by moi

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 2007-08-21 17:48

I would quite like to see something similar to those HellFire missiles if possible. What I don't like about the current PR TvGuided missiles, is that you can take 1000m "potshots" with them. This allows you to fire in the general area of an enemy, and just guide the missile in when you get closer, while the pilot retreats to a safe distance and waits for you to reload. While you're still in the process of shooting.

Just as an example: I was playing on Kashan the other day, and I had hopped into a mobile AA. I was rolling along when I suddenly noticed the familiar lock on sound. I had spotted a chopper. It quickly veered away and out of my lock on range (1000m I think), but not without spotting me. I keep rolling along, but stayed on the lookout for the chopper. A few seconds later, I get another lock on sound, and spot the chopper about 700meters away. I fire my AA missile at the same time the gunner fires his TvGuided missile. The only difference is that he gets the luxury of guiding it while the chopper flys away. Nevertheless, his first shot misses (so did mine) and he comes in for a second try. This time just going to the very edge of my lock on range, the gunner fires. And before I can even get a full lock (that takes like, what, 2 seconds?) the chopper had flown out of range, and the missile was still flying towards me, being guided by the copilot. This time, however, I was not so lucky, and was taken down without even phasing the enemy helicopter.

Anyway, my point is: What I like about the system in the video, is that the cobra gunner needs to actually keep the crosshair on the target while the missile is traveling. This requires the chopper pilot to keep steady until the missile hits. I think this would leave the helicopter more exposed to enemy fire while it's shooting and force the pilot to make a decision between staying steady, and the gunner possibly getting the kill, or pulling away and waiting for a better opportunity to make a better shot.

arjan · Post by **arjan** » 2007-08-21 18:25

Haha the luxury
i agree with you of the keep pointing target
and some other modes would be nice
becouse then you should get rocket attack for each type of threat

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-08-21 18:42

I've spent a decent amount of time in the Cobras here. When I'm flying we typically sit behind the ridges, above the tanks and AA supporting them. Its nearly impossible to stop b/c of the combined force combination/teamwork (esp if its two of our clan squads on teamspeak) we can sit out there and the minute a forward INF guy calls out some armor....I popup, bam...gunner blind fires and aquires his target in-route...apc down...tank down...etc etc. Its truely devestating. This is not how Hellfires work currently though IRL.

Now, the video there is not how the new hellfires work either. The newer longbow radar systems have made that 70's old school laser stuff FAR obsolete. The new hellfires are radar guided and have a range of like 15+km...bad news for tanks. Also all the bad guys on the ground are lucky the hydras are still dumbfires....they are being replaced right now with guided hydras, nasty stuff.

What we have now on the Cobras in-game and not present IRL is a fibre optic TV guided missile, a tiny fibre cable is linked from the missile to the vehicles-computer allowing for manual guidance in flight without line of site...basically they fire them into a hostile area and can aquire a target in-route(like 15km out).

Also the Cobras are being qualified for maverick rockets too I think.

Anyways we can't have the longbow radar system/missiles in-game. I surely don't want some crappy old LOS laser hellfire from the 70's in PR.

Right now our rockets only have a 1km range, the radar guided ones would just be insanely too devastating. Plus its not to far of a stretch to say that in the "Near-future" these fibre optic linked missiles couldn't be mounted on Attack helo's, though unlikely as the Radar guided ones are better being that weather\visibility etc doesn't effect them.

In conclusion: we dont have guided hydras, we dont have fancy radar guided missiles, we dont have awesome counter measures and we dont have mavericks...so I say leave them as they are. Plus, its insanely fun and cool.

Sincerely,

the guy who flew the guy, who killed your tank.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2007-08-21 19:00

1. Hydras can kill tanks. Like 5 close hits will damage it. A good hit or two on the turret is going to be fatal. The only drawback is that they are unguided, so direct hits are difficult. I've read records of the gulf war of pilots who ran out of missiles and risked closing with armor to use rockets on them.

2. Yeah I'd rather have a laser guided system that the old tv guided system. Its just that the TV guided missiles can be guided through windows and thats just awesome.

3. Tv guided missiles can no longer climb higher that the terrain on Kashan desert. This is extremely frustrating, and can be blamed on the Kashan desert skybox if I was to hazard a guess. could be fixed by raising the terrain on the outside of the map or something, or its just a range issue with the seeker screen.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-08-21 21:22

we need a system like poe2 , missils that can look on tanks , period.

its just insane that a tank can kill a choppers becouse he need to be near him to shoot the OLD TVG missils .

BlackwaterEddie · Post by **BlackwaterEddie** » 2007-08-21 21:53

I have no problem with the current system, you look at what attack choppers can do in RL, the Apache for example. The Apache can pop up several k away, choose the 8 (i think)most "dangerous" targets at that moment in time, and fire a rocket at them, how about the devs put that in, i bet youll be complaining about that as well.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-08-21 21:55

Things are fine the way they are now...if a tank is shooting down your chopper then you need practice. You can sit up high...1000m's out and nail them with a manually guided missile. No need to be ANYWHERE near a tank to kill it.

@ caboose. I didn't understand "2. Yeah I'd rather have a laser guided system that the old tv guided system."

You mean you would rather have the old 70's laser guided rockets like in those videos as compared to the new Manually guided TV rockets that are In-game now? Laser guided technology is old school and faulty due to a number of reason...weather, reflections off sand (sorta..they've improved things) visibility. One thing it is good for is that an INF on the ground can paint a target and the Hellfires can hit it 15+km away. But with the longbow system you don't even need that INF...radar lockons.

I wouldn't mind missiles that can lock on tanks. Its the way things are going for the Super Cobra. It can be equiped with big mavericks and the new Hydras are now going to be guided. lock on missiles are nearly as fun as the current ones, less player skill etc.

I think things are fine as is though, no need to devote precious/limited resources into fixing something thats not broke. Leave it as is.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-08-21 21:57

BlackwaterEddie wrote:I have no problem with the current system, you look at what attack choppers can do in RL, the Apache for example. The Apache can pop up several k away, choose the 8 (i think)most "dangerous" targets at that moment in time, and fire a rocket at them, how about the devs put that in, i bet youll be complaining about that as well.

Yeah and it'll fire all 8 rockets quick too...no waiting around. The system in place now is flippin fun anyways, I personally love it and I dont even gun...only pilot.

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-08-21 22:06

We couldn't really implement a system like in the videos in PR. The zoom those guys are using is incredible, and only made possible by massive amounts of image stabilization that we couldn't ever achieve with the BF2 engine.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-08-21 22:10

JP*wasteland.soldier wrote:We couldn't really implement a system like in the videos in PR. The zoom those guys are using is incredible, and only made possible by massive amounts of image stabilization that we couldn't ever achieve with the BF2 engine.

I agree but the choppers can actually perfectly hover in-game...its like sitting in a floating tank, completely not moving a single inch in any direction. I play with a mouse and it takes a couple of seconds....but REALLY helps out your gunner if he manning the MG on double zoom. Anyways, I don't want any changes to the current TV weapon...all good in my book.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-08-21 22:47

VipersGhost wrote:Things are fine the way they are now...if a tank is shooting down your chopper then you need practice. You can sit up high...1000m's out and nail them with a manually guided missile. No need to be ANYWHERE near a tank to kill it.

.

and who the heck you know that there is a tank there if you cant see him ? you are gonna waste a missil to know if someone is there ?

chopper MUST have hellfires, tows ,Shturm , Ataka-V ,etc .

and btw no , i dont fly choopers , but i im a tanker and is VERY easy to kill a chopper with the main gun .

BlackwaterEddie · Post by **BlackwaterEddie** » 2007-08-21 23:46

Sure that wasnt a typing error?

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-08-22 00:19

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:and who the heck you know that there is a tank there if you cant see him ? you are gonna waste a missil to know if someone is there ?

chopper MUST have hellfires, tows ,Shturm , Ataka-V ,etc .

and btw no , i dont fly choopers , but i im a tanker and is VERY easy to kill a chopper with the main gun .

If someone spots a bad guy...aka your tank. I will sit way out there, say "Patterson, shoot that tank at 5 oclock...900 meters or whatever...just find it" 5 seconds later that tank...the APC...the AA is dead. You get 8 missiles...they are free and rearm quickly, choppers are not so yeah we waste probably 20% of our rockets from misses or recon, but who cares. You can acquire a target VERY easily mid-flight with the guided missiles...shoot them high and then drop them on the first enemy you see. Normally we know where the armor is coming from...then fire a "recon rocket" to get a view and maybe a kill. After that the next rockets will be dead on. What you need to do is take a flight with me...you will see. My gunner will go 48-2 real easy on Kashan...thats mainly taking out tanks as they are the easiest targets- Stationary, fat, slow, sitting in the open and can't aim high like an APC. We have a good clan, so we work together easily on TS. There's always infantry some where spotting a tank or APC or whatever....its pretty easy to take down an enemy chopper with TV missiles if the gunner knows his game. We tend to run in a pack of tank+AA+inf+chopper. If I ever get locked up I immediately drop to the ground and run away to my AA. If its not a chopper, then we tell the tankers whats up and shoot a few recon rockets...rarely is a problem. Combined arms just works...with choppers...its over before it began. Good pilot/gunner are very rare though.

I've never been shot down by a tank whilst in Havok or Cobra, though I'm sure they could kill me easy if I was nice and close...but hell I dont do that as its much easier to just sit behind the ridge and drop them without ever being seen. Its not uncommon for my gunner to drop a 2 tanks+apc+whatever else without them ever seeing us before rearming....hell that is why the OP is complaining here, its too deadly.

Eitherway, until you experience actually doing it...you'll never know how awesome it is. Just find a good pilot...gunning isn't that hard. In the end, what you are seeing is bad chopper pilots not exploiting their strengths and showing their weakness blatantly. Bad pilots is nothing new to BF2-PR so saying that you shot some down is fine, but really...what would you expect. I usually see my wingman chopper go down in about 5-10 minutes, if you know what you are doing...its the easiest killing machine on the field to keep alive...I'm usually surprised if I dont stay alive the whole time...if I do die its very rare or I just had a brain fart and bounced into a wall whilst rearming.

Mora · Post by **Mora** » 2007-08-22 01:33

but still its unrealistic that the cobra only has tvg, and maybe its fun to use it but i think in some cases a lock is more handy. and the tow function is old ok leave that
but at lease make it realistic... its not hardcoded i saw it in a other mod too, i cant recall the name. and its only a suggestion thats why i post it here

Berry[13thmeu] · Post by **Berry[13thmeu]** » 2007-08-22 02:33

Jay wrote:I would quite like to see something similar to those HellFire missiles if possible. What I don't like about the current PR TvGuided missiles, is that you can take 1000m "potshots" with them. This allows you to fire in the general area of an enemy, and just guide the missile in when you get closer, while the pilot retreats to a safe distance and waits for you to reload. While you're still in the process of shooting.

Just as an example: I was playing on Kashan the other day, and I had hopped into a mobile AA. I was rolling along when I suddenly noticed the familiar lock on sound. I had spotted a chopper. It quickly veered away and out of my lock on range (1000m I think), but not without spotting me. I keep rolling along, but stayed on the lookout for the chopper. A few seconds later, I get another lock on sound, and spot the chopper about 700meters away. I fire my AA missile at the same time the gunner fires his TvGuided missile. The only difference is that he gets the luxury of guiding it while the chopper flys away. Nevertheless, his first shot misses (so did mine) and he comes in for a second try. This time just going to the very edge of my lock on range, the gunner fires. And before I can even get a full lock (that takes like, what, 2 seconds?) the chopper had flown out of range, and the missile was still flying towards me, being guided by the copilot. This time, however, I was not so lucky, and was taken down without even phasing the enemy helicopter.

Anyway, my point is: What I like about the system in the video, is that the cobra gunner needs to actually keep the crosshair on the target while the missile is traveling. This requires the chopper pilot to keep steady until the missile hits. I think this would leave the helicopter more exposed to enemy fire while it's shooting and force the pilot to make a decision between staying steady, and the gunner possibly getting the kill, or pulling away and waiting for a better opportunity to make a better shot.

I completely agree we need laser guided missiles in the chopers this tv stuff isnt realistic and it gives the chopper a way unfair advantage that it doesnt have in RL