Gas Gas Gas

[Wasteland]

This it Project REALITY, so...

#1, all forms of chemical warfare are prohibited by the Geneva Convention, including tear gas. US, GB, and China would not risk using them, for both practical and political reasons.

As a person who's been teargassed, let me just tell you that I doubt the US, GB, or China would have any qualms about using it in a major to-the-death war.

[Liquid_Cow]

IEDs with old chemical artillery shells

Yeah, in May 04 there was a Sarin shell rigged to an IED. No casualties reported in that and another incident. I suspect that since most of the chem shells found are more than 10 years old they've run out of shelf life and are not as bad as "fresh" shells would be. I also would not be surprised to hear that some insurgents have died trying to get or rig IED's with old chem shells, as they are notorious for leaking with age.

[milobr]

I don't know what terms you use but tear gas = lacrymogen gas, right?

Don't policeman use it all the time to control riots in the U.S. and Britain?

I remember seeing policeman from Britain using it to control riots in the World Cup. Don't know if it's tear gas, though.

I didn't know it was prohibited by the Geneva Convention. If so, Brazil is so much in trouble. Our police use it.

Or is it valid only for war?

[Eddie Baker]

I don't know what terms you use but tear gas = lacrymogen gas, right?

Yes, they are the same thing. Lachrym is the Latin word for tear. CS gas is generally used only in riot control situations, so it doesn't have to be used in war. In fact, in a full scale conflict it is probably less likely to be used.

[[T]Terranova7]

I think it's an interesting issue to explore. Though... the only forces I can see possibly using this are the MEC, Militia and Insurgents. Since the MEC is a fictional force, we don't have to assume that the geneva convention rules apply to them. And even if they did agree to the terms, there's never any gurantee that they wouldn't make use of it. We're talking a WW3 scenario in the conflict presented in PR, technically the nations involved should be throwing nukes at each other. Others have already pointed out a couple of scenarios where Insurgents attempted to rig old chemical shells with IEDs.

In any case, it could make for a unique asset available to the MEC. With mortars coming soon, perhaps the MEC's mortars can come with some sort of chemical shell equiped with a nerve agent or something. Conventional forces could potentialy have gas masks, though to actually make the chemical shells effective, the gas masks may only slow down the rate at which your health drains. So technically instead of breathing the chemical agent, it's being absorbed through the player's skin.

Expanding upon that idea, perhaps medics will have to use a slightly different method of healing the player should he be exposed to a chemical agent. Perhaps injecting the player with some sort of anti-toxic (I know EOD has a needle model that could be perfect for that) before healing the player with the medbag.

[ALPHA-WOLF]

Cow, I’m just saying in reality the western forces face the THREAT of chem attacks all the time
And as Terranova states, it’s a fictional Mec force why not introduce the real world threat of chem’s as a fictional element

Correct me if I’m wrong, I thought the western forces did use cs and tear gas?

Just think it would be 1 of the cool features the BF engine has for PR to enhance (both cs gas & chems)…

Lol needles, now that would be a cool screen shot to see a load of bods all in one of those dingy middle eastern buildings, jacking up!

Great news that mortars are going to be implemented tho, would be great to add the gas to them

[Thunder]

i like the idea of gas dropped by arty, i could imagine dropping gas on a flag before the troops more in.

but using tear gas on every map would be a bit much (it would either be over used or not at all) but on certain maps, it could be a nice alternative.

[ALPHA-WOLF]

Could cs or tear shots it be added to APC’s for certain maps to use against civvies?

Or even the rubber bullet idea?

Yeah chem attacks would be a great way of clearing hot spots!

[Masaq]

Yeah chem attacks would be a great way of clearing hot spots!

Does anyone else have this vision of Sir Douglas Haig saying something similar just prior to the first time the British attempted chlorine attacks?! Maybe it's just me...

That **** is banned for a reason. Having both cried for twenty minutes whilst boiling sulphuric acid and getting the gaseous acid in my eyes (mildly painful, more irritating to the throat and eyes than anything else), and quite badly inhaling a moderate amount of chlorine gas (actually quite scary- was coughing for about fifteen minutes, had a sore throat for a week and had to be checked out at A&E) - both of which were low-level exposures following my own stupidity in handling chemicals rather than a concerted chemical attack against me- I can assure you that the accurate modelling of chemical weapons is NOT something that you want to see in a game.

Tear gas is one thing, full blown chemical weapons are hideous. Even CS gas can cause blistering, festering sores and the like. Not nice.

Not that any aspect of warfare is nice, but as I said - that **** is banned for good cause.

[ALPHA-WOLF]

Lol christ Masaq you're gonna be wanting guns with little red plastic ends next

[Masaq]

Not really, but this is project reality. US, GB, PLA and MEC all don't/(wouldn't) use chemical weapons in conventional warfare. Ergo, they shouldn't in the mod.

Chemical weapons are weapons of terror; they inflict massive casualties, usually they don't kill quickly by any definition of quick, and the effects are pretty horrific. They're also notoriously difficult to control once they're released - many incidents of both sides in WWI releasing poisionous gases only to have them blow back on their own troops. They're just not something... fun... Shooting an imaginary pixelated gun is fun, but the idea of gassing a pixelated man until he falls to the floor coughing pixelated blood out of his nose and clutching at his throat is the kinda thing that gets games banned

[Liquid_Cow]

To the best of my knowlege, any chemical weapon is banned, and the US took some heat for using CS/CN (two types of tear gas) in Vietnam for clearing tunnels out. It is a local question at to the use by domestic police, in most nations it is widely accepted (but so are hollow point bullets, also banned by the Geneva Convention).

Ironically, just before the 1st Gulf War, I went through chemical warefare training. We watched a bunch of films (mostly showing victims from the Iraqi use of chem's), did a bunch of practice donning of our suits, and learned about the antidote auto injectors. In the end our instructor told us the suits and the injectors were just for the "look mom, I got protection" effect. If we were attacked without warning there would be massive deaths, nobody can put the suit on fast enough during a barrage. Even if we were in a "ready" state, a blind no warning attack would probably kill most of us since the lethal does is so small and the first warnings would be when your buddy starts drooling like a St Bernard at supper time. The suits were usefull after the initial attack to pick up bodies and decontaminate.

Further making them a problem for the game is that the area affected by the attack would remain toxic for much longer than a typical game runs.

I agree that insurgents would be tempted to use them, but as I said previously, despite their appearent widespread availablity in Iraq, there has only been one actual attack and one other that was detected prior to going off, showing how difficult it is to use this stuff.

I also think that the fictional MEC force might be more tempted to use it, but since the MEC has a "home nation" using gas would be very risky from the standpoint of retaliation. Lets say MEC is crazy as a loon Iran. There are certianly some there who would want to use it, but there are also some pretty smart people there who (I hope) would say no, the risk to the populace is just too great.

[Liquid_Cow]

the idea of gassing a pixelated man until he falls to the floor coughing pixelated blood out of his nose and clutching at his throat is the kinda thing that gets games banned

Well said!

[Masaq]

I also think that the fictional MEC force might be more tempted to use it, but since the MEC has a "home nation" using gas would be very risky from the standpoint of retaliation. Lets say MEC is crazy as a loon Iran. There are certianly some there who would want to use it, but there are also some pretty smart people there who (I hope) would say no, the risk to the populace is just too great.

Add into that the fact that MEC is a coallition of MidEast nations, not a single unified Middle-Eastern country. One nation's forces using chemical weapons near the border of its allies would be pretty rough stuff, diplomatically.

"Uh yeah, that nerve agent we just realised might contaminate your local watertable, but hey - we're fighting for the same cause under the same flag, right?!" tends not to get good responses in the global community hehehe.

[ALPHA-WOLF]

Shooting an imaginary pixelated gun is fun, but the idea of gassing a pixelated man until he falls to the floor coughing pixelated blood out of his nose and clutching at his throat is the kinda thing that gets games banned

Oooooooof better not share that kinda knowledge with too many bods!

Classic

Nah fair points, fair points...

Sooooo...

Is cutting through someones pixelated throat with a pixelated cheese wire is ok?

What about covering someone's pixelated mouth with a pixelated hanky covered in pixelated chloroform

So where does everyone stand on how far is too far in the game world? (I guess that could be another thread all together ay)