MOA of Handheld Weapons

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-08-25 03:58

I have compiled a spreadsheet with the predicted values of weapon deviation measured in MOA. Currently I have done it just for handheld weapons which are firing one shot, are zoomed and are stationary. Also I have done it for weapons in various postions (standing, crouched and prone). The formula I have used is D=C*B*S*Z, where:

D=Deviation in MOA (Diameter not radius of group)
C=Constant
=No. of MOA in a degree x 2(x 2 converts from radius to diameter)
=60 x 2
=120
B=ObjectTemplate.deviation.minDev
=Baseline deviation
S=ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModStand, ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModCrouch or ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModLie
=Stance deviation multiplier
Z=ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModZoom
=Zoom mode multiplier

This formula can simplified when firing with these conditions mentioned. This is because the deviation due to realigning the sight on target, the deviation due to firing multiple rounds, the deviation due to recoil and the deviation due to walking are not considered. The full formula can be found here: http://wiki.bf2s.com/weapons/comparison#deviation-calculations.

EDIT: Included the table for 0.708 which includes the deviation values from 0.6 for comparison as well as the steady times for each weapon.

Post by **Jaymz** » 2007-08-25 11:11

can I get fries and a large dr.pepper with that?

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-08-25 11:18

I'm afraid that by the time they reach you they will be cold/flat...

Post by **Jaymz** » 2007-08-25 11:29

nevertheless, great job

<1sk>Headshot · Post by **<1sk>Headshot** » 2007-08-25 11:50

Yeah, excellent work!

Funny, I never realised Sniper Rifles in BF2 engine even had a MOA, I thought they were configured to be like 1337 l@z0rzz and just hit the spot exactly.

Well at least i have an excuse when I miss now :]

=Romagnolo= · Post by **=Romagnolo=** » 2007-08-25 13:11

I'm totally a noob with what is going on here. Could someone explain it to me ?

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-08-25 13:26

=Romagnolo= wrote:I'm totally a noob with what is going on here. Could someone explain it to me ?

I have made a spreadsheet with the different accuracies of handheld weapons measured in MOA which are 1/60 of a degree.

=Romagnolo= · Post by **=Romagnolo=** » 2007-08-25 14:22

so... ? (I'm seriusly, not joking, I want know about it, everybody was a newbie one day)

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-08-25 14:54

=Romagnolo= wrote:so... ? (I'm seriusly, not joking, I want know about it, everybody was a newbie one day)

What in particular don't you understand, ask away?

<1sk>Headshot · Post by **<1sk>Headshot** » 2007-08-25 15:12

Very Basically.. Look at the spreadsheet, it has different figures for every gun in-game, in all 3 stances: Standing, Crouching and prone.

Nedlands1 has worked out using calculations how accurate each weapon is, in every Position. MOA (Minute of Angle) is the measurement used to measure this.

The smaller the figure the more accurate the gun is in that position.

For example, The G3A3 has a MOA of 2.16 when Prone and a MOA of 4.32 when crouching.

This means that the G3A3 is only half as accurate when crouching compared to when you go prone. Or alternatively prone shooting is 2 times more accurate than crouching shooting.

Make sense now?

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2007-08-25 16:13

Now atleast I now that the accuracy on L-AT actually drops while prone. Gj dude.

Brummy · Post by **Brummy** » 2007-08-25 16:45

What! The deviation of the M16, M4A1 and the G3 are the same!! Considering one is a Carbine, the other is a 5.56AR and the last one is a 7.62AR..

Surround · Post by **Surround** » 2007-08-25 17:09

Thx for explanation. Mai enklish is nou guud

SethLive! · Post by **SethLive!** » 2007-08-25 17:10

this is awesome! thanks man!

EDIT: after looking more closely, i think some things really need tweaking

why is the qbz-95 so accurate? why is the sa80 w/susat more accurate than the regular? why are shotguns so unrealistically inaccurate? why does stance make such a big difference with shotguns and smgs? why is the ak47 more accurate than the sks?

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2007-08-25 17:44

nedlands1 wrote:I have compiled a spreadsheet with the predicted values of weapon deviation measured in MOA. Currently I have done it just for handheld weapons which are firing one shot, are zoomed and are stationary. Also I have done it for weapons in various postions (standing, crouched and prone). The formula I have used is D=C*B*S*Z, where:

D=Deviation in MOA (Diameter not radius of group)

C=Constant
=No. of MOA in a degree x 2(x 2 converts from radius to diameter)
=60 x 2
=120

B=ObjectTemplate.deviation.minDev
=Baseline deviation

S=ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModStand, ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModCrouch or ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModLie
=Stance deviation multiplier

Z=ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModZoom
=Zoom mode multiplier
This formula can simplified when firing with these conditions mentioned. This is because the deviation due to realigning the sight on target, the deviation due to firing multiple rounds, the deviation due to recoil and the deviation due to walking are not considered. The full formula can be found here: http://wiki.bf2s.com/weapons/comparison ... lculations.

Are these PR values or, are they vBF2 values? I'm assuming that they are Project Reality in game values, right?
If so, then there is your problem with the assault rifles in game. Even in the prone position while zoomed you should NOT be getting MOA values under 3.00. All in all it should be more like 4.00 MOA.
Of course we all know that a rifles accuracy doesn't change with stance, or body position cause the rifle itself doesn't care know about that. It’s the shooters accuracy that changes with stance or body position. A rifle barrel fires with the same accuracy each time regardless of how it is positioned. The three different accuracy (MOA) values are to simulate how difficult it is to get any kind of accuracy while standing or kneeling.
I'd say have the Devs adjust those values to ensure that no assault rifle can get anything better than say 3.50 MOA regardless of stance.
As for the Sniper/Marksman weapons, they seem pretty close as I'm reading the data. Most all are between 3/4 MOA and 1.00 MOA, (there's one that's like 1.18, but that's ok) which is where they should be in all reality. Thanks for posting that data. Now everything seems a bit clearer.

Thanks again
R

Trigz07 · Post by **Trigz07** » 2007-08-25 20:45

Gamers are smart. They use math hehe. Good job.

=Romagnolo= · Post by **=Romagnolo=** » 2007-08-25 22:33

H3eadshot wrote:Very Basically.. Look at the spreadsheet, it has different figures for every gun in-game, in all 3 stances: Standing, Crouching and prone.

Nedlands1 has worked out using calculations how accurate each weapon is, in every Position. MOA (Minute of Angle) is the measurement used to measure this.

The smaller the figure the more accurate the gun is in that position.

For example, The G3A3 has a MOA of 2.16 when Prone and a MOA of 4.32 when crouching.

This means that the G3A3 is only half as accurate when crouching compared to when you go prone. Or alternatively prone shooting is 2 times more accurate than crouching shooting.

Make sense now?

I see the light now. Thanks a lot for the explanation !

About the topic, good job !

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-08-26 03:03

Bear in mind, these are the best accuracies possible in game. The are when you shoot one shot, stay perfectly still (turning and walking) before your shot and look down the sights. I believe the reason there is extra deviation when crouched or standing over prone, is to simulate the extra weapon sway. This sway can't be physically modeled, so the effects are instead. The data I have is quite useless for LMG's as it would appear from the data that they are super accurate. This is not the case as there is a fair amount of recoil and other deviation added with subsequent shots. For the assault rifles, battle rifles and carbines in this mod, the general method is to make the scoped variants more accurate, looking down the scope. This is done through the "ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModZoom" multiplier. In the case of the scoped G3A3 and the pseudo, scoped M16A2 it would appear that the developers haven't changed the zoom multiplier from the iron sight value of 0.4 to the scoped value of 0.3. Having a smaller value will make the overall deviation less. If this was changed, then the scoped carbines would be less accurate then the scoped assault, battle rifles with the same conditions described before.

Petey · Post by **Petey** » 2007-08-26 07:46

I dont get it either...lol
for some reason i though MOA was medal of honor airborne

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2007-08-27 14:42

nedlands1 wrote:Bear in mind, these are the best accuracies possible in game. The are when you shoot one shot, stay perfectly still (turning and walking) before your shot and look down the sights. I believe the reason there is extra deviation when crouched or standing over prone, is to simulate the extra weapon sway. This sway can't be physically modeled, so the effects are instead. The data I have is quite useless for LMG's as it would appear from the data that they are super accurate. This is not the case as there is a fair amount of recoil and other deviation added with subsequent shots. For the assault rifles, battle rifles and carbines in this mod, the general method is to make the scoped variants more accurate, looking down the scope. This is done through the "ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModZoom" multiplier. In the case of the scoped G3A3 and the pseudo, scoped M16A2 it would appear that the developers haven't changed the zoom multiplier from the iron sight value of 0.4 to the scoped value of 0.3. Having a smaller value will make the overall deviation less. If this was changed, then the scoped carbines would be less accurate then the scoped assault, battle rifles with the same conditions described before.

Your spreadsheet just proves (in black and white) that the assault rifles a WAY to accurate in game. I understand that these values represent single shot and stable stances, which is really common in game. You can even single shot the SAW if you try.
You forgot to answer my earlier question though. Are your values from vBF2 or PR? I'm assuming PR, am I correct in that assumption? Thanks for taking the time to put that spreadsheet together for all of us.

R