SNOBS

[Long Bow]

To me this whole problem of snobs and newbs is a bigger issue then just PR. Personally I find that most of the time the servers have a mix of players. You get people asking questions and you get people giving them the answers. Things run smoothly. For the most part people are treating each other decently.

The real problem are people who have no respect for others in life, have an attitude that they deserve what ever they desire and have no real work ethic. Why read the manual when you can just tell me? Who cares how I phrase my questions, I don't care if I sound demanding. I don't understand what PR's philosphy is but I would like to suggest/criticise something anyways. All of these things are a lack of respect to all those who came before you and took the time to learn, to read the forums and the manual. People who are lazy and selfish are what I feel are the problem. A general lack of respect and desire to put in some effort, instead, relying on others to feed them the information.

If people are polite and phrase their questions or suggestions in an intelligent manner I would gladly answer the fast rope question 10 times a day or what the shovel is for. However that is not always the case so you get a harsh responce.

Put in some effort and show respect and I will put in some effort and give you my respect in return. Simple life rule.

[OkitaMakoto]

To me this whole problem of snobs and newbs is a bigger issue then just PR. Personally I find that most of the time the servers have a mix of players. You get people asking questions and you get people giving them the answers. Things run smoothly. For the most part people are treating each other decently.

The real problem are people who have no respect for others in life, have an attitude that they deserve what ever they desire and have no real work ethic. Why read the manual when you can just tell me? Who cares how I phrase my questions, I don't care if I sound demanding. I don't understand what PR's philosphy is but I would like to suggest/criticise something anyways. All of these things are a lack of respect to all those who came before you and took the time to learn, to read the forums and the manual. People who are lazy and selfish are what I feel are the problem. A general lack of respect and desire to put in some effort, instead, relying on others to feed them the information.

If people are polite and phrase their questions or suggestions in an intelligent manner I would gladly answer the fast rope question 10 times a day or what the shovel is for. However that is not always the case so you get a harsh responce.

Put in some effort and show respect and I will put in some effort and give you my respect in return. Simple life rule.

Wow. Thats what I tried to say a few posts/pages back... exactly.
Thanks.

[Masaq]

Other times people are getting upset with people telling others to clean up their grammar or use the search function. These are perfectly valid requests. On more mature forums, there's certain rules of netiquette that people are expected to follow. People should search before creating a new thread. People should take the time to type coherently. People should read before writing. As a community, we *will* and *should* self-regulate to make sure people feel some pressure to abide by these conventions.

Fair comment, but what you have yet to account for is when someone posts a suggestion that's been suggested before, or in poor spelling/grammar, and instead of one person politely explaining that 1) it's been suggested before 2) there is a search function that should be used and 3) please could they make clearer use of English, you get three, four or five people responding with "suggested before" - which is of no use to the OP because it doesn't explain to them that posting repeat suggestions is poor forum etiqutte, or that there is a search button (and an entire thread) that they should use first.

If people were seeing community self-regulation along the lines of:

"This suggestion has been made before. For the sake of the PR forum community, please could you use the SEARCH function (available from the forum's toolbar or at this link: http://realitymod.com/forum/search.php) or visit the PREVIOUSLY SUGGESTED IDEAS THREAD available here: http://realitymod.com/forum/t18434.html in future before posting new suggestions.

This is because repeat suggestions needlessly fill up the forum and makes it hard for the PR team to respond appropriately to new and original suggestions. Thanks!"

and

"I'm sorry but it's difficult to read your post due to poor spelling and grammar. Please take the time to use reasonably correct spelling and grammar, as it makes it much easier for people to reply to you. Thanks!

Now if something along those lines, posted once after the original offending post, were seen more often then I'm sure people would be more amienable to this kind of self-regulation. As it stands, the vast, VAST majority of "suggested before" comments are unhelpful and a fair degree of them downright rude- itself a forum violation.

Don't forget that the PR forums could well be the first forums/message board that someone has ever posted on. They may well be unaware of the online social niceties (which are sometimes fairly subtle) that the rest of us take pretty much for granted.

[eggman]

be nice and ignore the n00bs if you don't want to be helpful.

[Hx.Clavdivs]

I don't like the direction where this thread is going. This is actually turning into a adult conversation and serious discussion of the topic. Don't like it one bit.

But seriously - there are times where I am surprised how vicious we can be to newcomers, then we have posts like this and I think that really, - we ain't that bad.

[WNxKenwayy]

If someone isn't motivated to RTFM they sure as hell wont be motivated to be a team player.

[eggman]

I do agree that "Where is the sniper kit?" followed with "this mod sucks" is rather tiring.

But I don't say much back... just ignore them... I am honestly not motivated to teach people how a complex FPS works while trying to enjoy it myself. But... I don't dump on them and I think it's the dumping that puts people off.

[Z-trooper]

Its a tough subject. I often see those people that just join a server and do the stuff they are used to do in vbf2 like just bailing out of a vehicle or chopper only to find themselves dead and then a few moments later make the clever comment "This game sucks" - those people I do not help, they have no respect for the effort that has been made by countless people in their spare time. just downloaded it, played it and pissed on it. no sir!

The people that behave mature and/or ask nicely I sometimes stop up to help. depending on my situation/the complexity of the question..

[hx.bjoffe]

If you ask me, the persons who drive the spawnvehicles into certain death time after time after time (and wow, even once more) and totally ignores the rest of the teams polite requests not to do so... deserves a little text-flaming!
Gentleness towards newcommers goes without saying. But isnt the angry mob with stakes and shit who root out the worst idiots who wont listen and keep ruining the game for the rest of the team, in its right place?
As long they dont fuck it up for everyone else, the newbs can be as egocentric as they want for all i care.
Alot of people are dumb sometimes. Both experienced players and inexperienced. Just be a little humble, and dont cross the line. Both of yah.

[Wasteland]

Masaq;464574']Fair comment, but what you have yet to account for is when someone posts a suggestion that's been suggested before, or in poor spelling/grammar, and instead of one person politely explaining that 1) it's been suggested before 2) there is a search function that should be used and 3) please could they make clearer use of English, you get three, four or five people responding with "suggested before" - which is of no use to the OP because it doesn't explain to them that posting repeat suggestions is poor forum etiqutte, or that there is a search button (and an entire thread) that they should use first.

This would be instruction, but not regulation. By being a little short when somebody screws up and suggests fast roping, the community creates social pressure for the newcomer to be less flippant in the future.

Saying "this has been suggested before. Use the search function at the top of the page before making suggestions" is not rude. Nor is "if you want me to take the time to read what you write, take the time to write it coherently." These statements, while frank, are perfectly normal forms of social coercion, an essential part of any small sub-culture. Over-politeness mitigates this coercion, and the result is that while people's behavior *may* change, their attitudes certainly won't. They won't suggest fast-roping again, and they might use the search on their next couple suggestions, but soon they'll return to their old ways.

I certainly don't advocate outright rudeness, but I really don't see much of that occurring on the forums. In-game is another matter of course, and I don't pretend to defend the actions of people there.

On a side note, I think you may not be giving new-comers enough credit. They can stand up to a little trial by fire, and the ones that can't are usually the ones that later become trouble makers (like that blackeagle guy who started calling Palestinians animals to be exterminated).

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Besides, it a time tested tradition of hazing and proof positive of the theorem that excrement flows downhill.
The people that get treated the meanest ask for it, more than once.
Nobody flames you for your first post, we simply provoke and if you respond and try to defend your mistaken notion that 5.56 does this or that and is the best/worst bullet every made....well then ...

[Outlawz7]

Well, its funny to see dumb stuff being ask and done and nice to help the poor guy, who has no idea about it.
Another thing is, when they come out with the tard vBF2 attitude and think, they are better than you

[soulfood187]

I admit that I still have a lot to learn on PR. What amazes me is the vBF2 attitude that it is ok to TK for assets. Why would I want to help people that will TK me for a 'copter that I'm in. I was TK'd twice in two days by the same player for the same thing, his response was it was funny. He didn't know where to get kits from, could fly the 'copter (destroyed both)and couldn't be bothered reading the Wiki. So why should I bother when I went through and read the wiki before playing?

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

He didn't know where to get kits from, could fly the 'copter (destroyed both)and couldn't be bothered reading the Wiki. So why should I bother when I went through and read the wiki before playing?

Umm... you answered your own question there. If this "individual" had asked and you answered then you could have saved yourself 2 teamkills.
I admit it's unlikely that a pleasant, open minded view on your part would have made much difference in this case but the more people who tell about kits then the less BS there is overall.

Now, if it had been me that had been TK'd twice in a row for a pilot kit I would have already made this "individual" famous by naming him in the forums and asking him, ever so politely, to explain his actions.

[[ABA]Littledragon]

i'm pretty new hated BF2 but this PR is very good - its a question of education if people ask for help then help them simple.

[FoW_Strummer]

I'm Back..yep me the original NOOB who first asked..."who holds the key that winds up Big Ben...?" but seriously, is it so difficult to answer questions especially with VOIP. Honestly, I really dont want to be in a squad that doesnt use voip or have a ts server to hop on. If you are running around squadless...START a squad. I am amazed to how many people hate being SL. I suck as SL, (trying to get better), but thats why I play this game..there are not that many good squad based games around anymore. There is nothing I like more than starting a squad, try to get everyone organized only to have people leave to join up with the cool crowd..lol. To sit there and type and blah blah around is very annoying...I was finally in a squad where everyone was communicating and working well together. We made the NOOB mistakes like forgetting to get an officer kit, forgeting to bring along a medic...but we all learned from our mistakes and got better. We were not the best squad coz the "cream of the crop" were all in there LOCKED squad of premadonas...walking around and being bossy to all of us grunts...lol. BUt, hey, I guess thats war... Oh yeah. I hope that more servers fire up the ABR...I like to see how many tk's and the "ever increasing death to kill ratio" is coming along...

STRUM

[OkitaMakoto]

I'm Back..yep me the original NOOB who first asked..."who holds the key that winds up Big Ben...?" but seriously, is it so difficult to answer questions especially with VOIP. Honestly, I really dont want to be in a squad that doesnt use voip or have a ts server to hop on. If you are running around squadless...START a squad. I am amazed to how many people hate being SL. I suck as SL, (trying to get better), but thats why I play this game..there are not that many good squad based games around anymore. There is nothing I like more than starting a squad, try to get everyone organized only to have people leave to join up with the cool crowd..lol. To sit there and type and blah blah around is very annoying...I was finally in a squad where everyone was communicating and working well together. We made the NOOB mistakes like forgetting to get an officer kit, forgeting to bring along a medic...but we all learned from our mistakes and got better. We were not the best squad coz the "cream of the crop" were all in there LOCKED squad of premadonas...walking around and being bossy to all of us grunts...lol. BUt, hey, I guess thats war... Oh yeah. I hope that more servers fire up the ABR...I like to see how many tk's and the "ever increasing death to kill ratio" is coming along...

STRUM

very nice. *borat thumbs up*
I liked your post. I agree. If someone is in my dquad, i ALWAYS give them a nice answer... but most times a see a questions, its not on viop/ts/or squad chat. And half the time its from the enemy... maybe from now on I should strongly suggest that they join a squad and ask them... or heck, give them the answer, and still suggest they get into a squad. I hate going into a room with some locked squads, then see like 10 people unassigned...

But yes, joining a squad and following/asking them is definitely better than asking in global chat. For many reasons including
1. cleanliness, keeps the board clean
2. squad cohesion, your squad functions better with the trust and thanks
3. you become generally closer with your squad
4. in a squad you can just learn as you go instead of being solo and being like WTF? you can approach it as a squad and see how the SL and "vet" players react/act (when seeing a spawn car, enemy unit, enemy RP, commander assets, etc.)
probably more, but I think thats mainly the reasons I see most important...

[S.P.C-[Reality]-]

this is realy sad. i have seen new players coming to a server and asking like how to get a kit or how to set a RP, and all the sudden some ppl start yelling "READ THE MANUAL". i mean taking a few mins of your time and helping ppl wont do any harm to you.

[S.P.C-[Reality]-]

If they dont read the manual, If they dont look in the wiki.... Well then frankly, I just dont give a flying fuck about them.

you dont have a sense of humor. well they cant memorise the whole manual and may forget somethings. dont you agree!?