Increase Respawn Times - Next open beta

[VipersGhost]

I know this is an old topic and probably pretty controversial but it might not be a bad idea for an open beta.

The 30sec+ respawn time really is pretty dang short and it tends to not prevent guys from going gungho. I think doubling that to 1 minute might just change the feel of the game.

Right now it still has that vanilla feel. You can respawn so fast that you really aren't punished for dieing. So you can do some recon, rush the enemy to mash them with nades or just run-n-gun....then die and be back alive so quickly. I want to know that when I've killed a guy and survived that I've done something.

I never really feel like...ooh I died, now I'm out for a bit. Without that dynamic, guys will still cruise around recklessly. Also killing a guy doesn't mean you've damaged their team much as you know they'll be back in 40 seconds AND know your teams position. I'm always a fan the Rainbow games with rounds and "when you out, your out" feel...I think moving PR more towards that and further away from vBF2 would be a good thing. Plenty of people play games like CS or Rainbow where you die and have to wait 1+ minutes to come alive...I don't think it'd hurt PR. Yes even in those games guys rush a lot...but they are CQB style where rushing is a more valid tactic.

I know the spawn mechanics are being reworked but I still would like to see this tested. This would make our in-game lives a lot more valued and reward the more conservative\ realistic players.

[Katarn]

There is an active discussion about making PR less run-n-gun and make it less of a spawn-in-and-die spamfest in the dev forums. Without increasing spawn times.

[BetterDeadThanRed]

There is an active discussion about making PR less run-n-gun and make it less of a spawn-in-and-die spamfest in the dev forums. Without increasing spawn times.

+1 half of the times I die, it is not because I charged into the fray but just bad luck. Most of the time, people who charge into the fray will at the very least take a few people with them. Hardly fair.

[VipersGhost]

There is an active discussion about making PR less run-n-gun and make it less of a spawn-in-and-die spamfest in the dev forums. Without increasing spawn times.

Very cool, any more info...just curious.

[dbzao]

+1 half of the times I die, it is not because I charged into the fray but just bad luck. Most of the time, people who charge into the fray will at the very least take a few people with them. Hardly fair.

Indeed... specially in CQB sometimes the rushers can get better results than a stationary soldier guarding a position. This is not good, and hopefully some deviation tweakings can help with that.

[ReaperMAC]

Good to hear.

[Outlawz7]

There is an active discussion about making PR less run-n-gun and make it less of a spawn-in-and-die spamfest in the dev forums. Without increasing spawn times.

Its already bad enough, when you fall down somewhere, die and get 1 min spawn or spawn and get killed by spawn rapers or get TKd by a moron, as soon as you pop up on the field.

The current spawn times are fine.

[VipersGhost]

Indeed... specially in CQB sometimes the rushers can get better results than a stationary soldier guarding a position. This is not good, and hopefully some deviation tweakings can help with that.

I totally agree there's definitely more than one factor surrounding the issue at hand. I see the problem as being greater than just run-gunners though, we all run around in the open...dash away from our squadies, try to strafe-spot snipers, rush tanks with C4, rush bunkers with nades and generally many other things that throw us into the action fast but with reckless disregard for our lives.

Why is this? Because really I don't mind dieing, and not many others do...its only 40second wait, hardly a penalty...and thats on a bad/long round. Dieing is basically a quick rearming/switch kit sometimes, where is the incentive to stay alive? When we hear gun fire, we sprint towards it...we don't move conservatively for the most part. I'm not speaking like its ALWAYS this way though, many times guys are playing conservatively...but this disregard for your players life occurs far more often than it should and its not just with the noobs.

I'd just like there to be something that makes a guy think twice before dashing out across the desert open without smoke, as it is now...we say "Ah, I'll give it a try and see if anyone is out there"...if death insues...so what, 30secs later and we are good as new...maybe a little walk to the fight but no big deal.

[Outlawz7]

People do take cover and stuff, but when half of the squad gets sniped by a scoped weapon under 5 seconds, then you can expect things to break apart...

[Waaah_Wah]

Its already bad enough, when you fall down somewhere, die and get 1 min spawn or spawn and get killed by spawn rapers or get TKd by a moron, as soon as you pop up on the field.

The current spawn times are fine.

X2

[BlackwaterEddie]

When we hear gun fire, we sprint towards it...we don't move conservatively for the most part.

I agree, if you hear gunfire, you want to get there as quick as you can, you dont stop and think "well, we should move covservatively to avoid getting raped".

Another thing is, squads moving in fireteams (group of 4 men) get killed easily by your average "JUMP ROUND CORNER, PRONE AND SHOOT LIKE CRAZY" guy, im not the only one that does it and im sure many people do it but its just not right.

The only logical thing i can think of is making maps bigger thus getting killed means a long walk back to the fight, but people will get annoyed with walking for too long, people get bored, people start pissing about (like firing just to the left or right of someone, causing their screen to blur, something ive seen countless times in servers).

[.:iGi:. Greg]

Rushing in to the flags is crucially important in capping flags. One of the worst problems on servers is when you see people taking forever to get to the next flag, allowing the other side to reinforce it or cap it themselves. Taking flags wins the game, if a decent squad rushes a flag before the enemy notice they can cap it easily and gain the team a huge advantage.

I personally would not want to see longer spawn times. 30 secs is long enough. Whilst this is a 'Reality' mod, it also has to be fun or no one will play it. Making spawn times of 1 minute every time you die would just be far too boring.

I think what needs to be done is removal of some of the spawn places. For example if you can only spawn on RPs and SLs and not APCs, command trucks etc, it would make more people try and put RPs down and also help the squad members to think more if they know they have fewer places to spawn and maybe a very long walk if they die. But with regards to APCs this needs to be countered with something that troops can get from it such as all kits for example, otherwise the APCs would just revert to previous versions where they were used just as attack vehicles.

[nicoX]

Agree ^

[AnRK]

If theres an alternative I'd much rather have that to be honest. Whatever it may be it will probably be more constructive in terms of gameplay then sticking a few more seconds on the timer.

[Long Bow]

iGi Greg hit on something there. I think less locations to spawn will discourage dieing. If you know you have to spend a good couple of minutes to get back into the fight, assuming you don't die on the way, will discourage taking to many risks.

Second to that would be to keep the base respawn time to 30 seconds but ramp up the additional spawn time from +1 per death to +3 or +5 seconds. You die once you get 30 seconds, you start racking up a half a dozen deaths your getting closer to that 1 minute your looking for. It will reward those who only die a handfull of times and discourage those who don't mind dieing lots to rush a flag. Sure you could rush the first flag and die two or three times without it being a big deal but you do that rush tactic two more times and your going to be waiting around a long time.

Maybe the 1 minute spawn is the answer but a more gradual approach might work? Maybe 45 seconds in 0.7 then a 1 minute in 0.8, ease us into it, use some lube etc.

[mammikoura]

Second to that would be to keep the base respawn time to 30 seconds but ramp up the additional spawn time from +1 per death to +3 or +5 seconds. You die once you get 30 seconds, you start racking up a half a dozen deaths your getting closer to that 1 minute your looking for. It will reward those who only die a handfull of times and discourage those who don't mind dieing lots to rush a flag.

exactly what I suggested a while back. But the majority of the community seemed to think that +1 second is better than +2 or +3. (did a poll on it)
But I still think it's a great idea, players who can keep themselves alive won't get punished by the extra 30 seconds, but people who die all the time will be looking at 1min spawntimes very quickly.

This would also make killing enemies more important. You kill a lot of people in the beginning -> at the end of the round they will have longer spawn times -> capping flags etc will be easier.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

I've been playing some ArmA and while respawn times are like 10 seconds it is often at least a 3min helo ride or a 5+min car ride to return to the action.
This has made me far more risk averse that I was in PR where, as mentioned, no matter what dumbass stunt I pull it will only be 30-40 seconds before I'm back in the fray.
I would like to see the weapons less accurate and a sliding scale on death spawn time somewhat like lnog bow mentioned.
1 death = 1 second
2 death = 2 seconds
3 death = 5 seconds
4-9... = 6 seconds
10-15 = 10 seconds
15-20 = 20 seconds
20-30 =30 seconds
30+ = 1 min +1 sec per death
No more Rambo's in long games or they will be sitting around for a long time.

[T0M@field]

why do some ppl (and not everyone) want to increase every punish-rule.
i think its time to code some gratification-rules for ppl who e.g. stay alive very long or stay at the SL.
i mean, these punishments make sense but sometimes also they decrease the fun-level for (advanced) players.
and to increase the deathtime-bonus means that EVERYONE will be punished
....cause i dont believe that advanced players die when they want to

Btw:
has anyone calculated his complete "time of waiting" while beeing dead in PR... i guess no one wants to increase the time-punish after that calculation

Give better playing ppl better conditions. i would like to see spawnpoints which can count the spawns... so after ~20 ppl spawned in/got out of a apc it should be empty.
RP should just have this feature too... as every external SP.
and what about a limited amount of cars and other rolling and flying stuff which can be ordered when you own the crewman-kit a.s.o.
with that feature a game could be won on differnt tactics.... i mean if there are 10 tanks available on one round... some ppl will get these monsters tank by tank out of the base and some will use all of them at the beginning.... which is (for me) a nice tactic component which im missing since now

[VipersGhost]

All of these ideas are good. Rewarding the living players isn't a bad thing and too many punishings can be bad. Death however needs to be a lot more punishing IMO. Like ADA said....having to take 5 mins to get back into action after dieing makes him FAR more careful. PR BADLY needs this, not 5 minutes but definitely something. I know the spawn mechanics will help out with the spammyness...but I am almost positive that there will still be a lot of very careless, gamey play style from noobs and vets alike.

We are spoiled with the current spawn times...30 seconds is nothing to wait. I dont know why we think that 1 minute spawns are going to ruin the game. Its a single, minute. As I said earlier the most popular FPS shooter ever basically has 1-2 minute spawns...counter-strike. Not for everyone, but a LOT of players die early and have to wait a minute or two for the round to start. PR has a death cam...after your 30 secs you can press "C" and follow other players around in the action.

The +3 timer increase is a good idea but I'd still take that with 1 minute spawn times. I think everyone is just imagining their current gameplay but with 1 minute times....this is a problem. This idea should change your game style, force you to stop making the silly bum rushes and jogs across the open with no smoke. PR is far, far to careless and forgiving for us to see realistic gameplay...I wouldn't mind taking a big step in the other direction. Anyways I was merely talking about giving it a whirl in an open beta. I really don't think we all have to be so afraid of spawn timer increases though, sure it'd be painful and require some changes in thinking...but thats exactly what we need.

[Darkpowder]

I've always said that realism has to be the focus of the game but BF2 is fundamentally a respawning game. 30 secs i feel is fine as a baseline, there are probably other ways to change the feel outside respawn times.

For regular games, increasing the TK penalty would be the best, as we are still seeing a lot of that. Also, if you are guilty of TKing in that round i would say that ALL special kits should be banned from that player until the next round. Basically they need to learn to be a rifleman until they get given a heavy AT or a tank gunner or an army pilot. TKing in a round whether forgiven or not, should prevent players from being a commander and if the above kit penalty was implemented officers too.

I have often considered a "Game-Mode" that could be possible as a "no-respawn" mode.
In otherwords counterstrike style mode. Not all BF2 games should be like that, but some could be perhaps if this game mode had some accompanying maps too, suiting that mode as in many ways the current maps do not.

I would suggest perhaps this "no-respawn" mode to accompany an "objective" or "destroy-mission" type of game-mode, at least as an option.