Su-25 Frogfoot Vs. A-10 Warthog

system · Post by **system** » 2007-09-01 20:22

I like the A-10 more, for a couple of reasons. Mainly because I love the way it looks and I've been a fan of it since I was little. haha

Ikarti · Post by **Ikarti** » 2007-09-02 14:47

Though the A-10 is a better plane both in-game and IRL, I prefer the Frogfoot. Even though the PR A-10's cannon is the A2A sniper cannon of doom, I can still typically outfly them and shoot them down. Plus the rockets scare the hell out of tank crew. Then they jump out and repair and you rocket them some more. Too bad they lost the wrench and can't do that anymore.

Liquid_Cow · Post by **Liquid_Cow** » 2007-09-03 18:56

TexLax wrote:A-10's aren't manufactured anymore, haven't been for a long time.

The first A-10C's were delivered last Nov, and the first squadron to use them in Iraq and Afganistan are in the process of deploying as we speak (1st week of Sept.) With this upgrade the A-10 will be without a doubt the most powerful CAS in the world.

The A-10A and B were both "old technology" aircraft which had few modern features to them. They were the last modern aircraft to be built with "old fashion" mechanical systems (vs fly-by-wire and other computers). The US Air Force hated them, pawning all of them off to Air Force Reserve or National Guard units. In the age of the fly-by-wire supersonic jet they were an anachronism and needed to be pushed to the side as quickly as possible. The F-16 was considered as the logical replacement for the A-10, it was fast and modern.

All that changed on Aug 2nd 1991 when Kuwait was invaded. Reserve pilots flying the A-10 made mince meat of Republican Guard tanks, while F-16s has a hard time finding targets (too fast), and ran out of ammo and fuel too soon to provide meaningful CAS to friendly troops. I saw Iraqi POW's litterly cower when A-10's flew by, they called it the "Devil's Cross." I asked one why it was so feared, he told me "F-16 come, drop bomb, leave... A-10 come drop bomb, come back shoot gun, come back shoot rocket..." You could duck an F-16, but an A-10 was a lot harder to survive.

Suddenly the Airforce learned yet again (just like they did in Korea and Vietnam) that fast-movers were not ideal CAS birds. Pressured by various factions the Airforce finally relented and decided to upgrade the A-10.

Under this program, the A-10 will receive numerous enhancements including the full integration of sensors, including data link and a targeting pod, allowing the A-10C to identify and strike targets from higher altitudes and greater distances without sacrificing accuracy. This integration also will enhance the aircraft's communication capabilities.

The cockpit will undergo modifications under the program with the introduction of two new multi-functional color displays and a new hands-on-throttle-and-stick interface. These enhancements translate into increased situational awareness for the pilot and the ability to perform most tasks without removing his or her hands from the throttle or stick.

A-10's despite their 30 year old avionics and lack of high tech equipment were terrors of the sky over Iraq. Now they possess some of the same aiming and guidance that the F-16 does... God help anyone who finds themselves downrange of a A-10 pilot in a free fire zone!

TexLax · Post by **TexLax** » 2007-09-03 19:13

Liquid_Cow wrote:The first A-10C's were delivered last Nov, and the first squadron to use them in Iraq and Afganistan are in the process of deploying as we speak (1st week of Sept.) With this upgrade the A-10 will be without a doubt the most powerful CAS in the world.

The A-10A and B were both "old technology" aircraft which had few modern features to them. They were the last modern aircraft to be built with "old fashion" mechanical systems (vs fly-by-wire and other computers). The US Air Force hated them, pawning all of them off to Air Force Reserve or National Guard units. In the age of the fly-by-wire supersonic jet they were an anachronism and needed to be pushed to the side as quickly as possible. The F-16 was considered as the logical replacement for the A-10, it was fast and modern.

All that changed on Aug 2nd 1991 when Kuwait was invaded. Reserve pilots flying the A-10 made mince meat of Republican Guard tanks, while F-16s has a hard time finding targets (too fast), and ran out of ammo and fuel too soon to provide meaningful CAS to friendly troops. I saw Iraqi POW's litterly cower when A-10's flew by, they called it the "Devil's Cross." I asked one why it was so feared, he told me "F-16 come, drop bomb, leave... A-10 come drop bomb, come back shoot gun, come back shoot rocket..." You could duck an F-16, but an A-10 was a lot harder to survive.

Suddenly the Airforce learned yet again (just like they did in Korea and Vietnam) that fast-movers were not ideal CAS birds. Pressured by various factions the Airforce finally relented and decided to upgrade the A-10.

A-10's despite their 30 year old avionics and lack of high tech equipment were terrors of the sky over Iraq. Now they possess some of the same aiming and guidance that the F-16 does... God help anyone who finds themselves downrange of a A-10 pilot in a free fire zone!

im not exactly sure what your saying to what i said, but A-10's aren't manufactured, they still receive upgrades though

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-09-03 21:33

that mean , put the su39 for AT mision and the su25 for CAS .

Jedimushroom · Post by **Jedimushroom** » 2007-09-03 21:52

Isn't the su-34 that bomber with two seats side by side from vanilla? Kinda looks like it.

Juba · Post by **Juba** » 2007-09-04 00:12

Jedimushroom wrote:Isn't the su-34 that bomber with two seats side by side from vanilla? Kinda looks like it.

yes the Su-34 is that bomber with two seats side by side from vanilla

Long Bow · Post by **Long Bow** » 2007-09-04 14:44

I can't believe no one addressed the painted on mouth on the A-10!!!??? Helllooo a big painted on scary mouth and eyes wins hands down. Until the Russians can come up with a scarier "mask" the SU-25 is going to loose everytime.

Petey · Post by **Petey** » 2007-09-05 14:19

Liquid_Cow wrote:The first A-10C's were delivered last Nov, and the first squadron to use them in Iraq and Afganistan are in the process of deploying as we speak (1st week of Sept.) With this upgrade the A-10 will be without a doubt the most powerful CAS in the world.

theres an a-10c?
what in the world does it carry???

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2007-09-05 15:06

I'm not sure whether the payload has been changed, but the electronics have gotten a much needed update.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » 2007-09-05 15:18

Old Cockpit

New Cockpit

A10

A10c

On the A10 vs Su25

Id go for thew A10 all the time

Petey · Post by **Petey** » 2007-09-05 16:28

yeah...i know how an a-10c looks like, but it has the "c" in its name...which means carrier. sooo what does it carry?

swiftdraw · Post by **swiftdraw** » 2007-09-05 17:05

Petey wrote:yeah...i know how an a-10c looks like, but it has the "c" in its name...which means carrier. sooo what does it carry?

No, the 'c' at the end marks its variant. If the 'c' was capitalized and in front, as in C-10, then it would be designated as a cargo aircraft.

Petey · Post by **Petey** » 2007-09-05 17:07

swiftdraw wrote:No, the 'c' at the end marks its variant. If the 'c' was capitalized and in front, as in C-10, then it would be designated as a cargo aircraft.

oooo gotcha thanks

wow i feel stupid

Darkpowder · Post by **Darkpowder** » 2007-09-05 17:20

Well there was a bit of a debate whether the Frogfoot was "inspired" byt the Northrop A-9 a prototype aircraft that lost the competition with the Fairchild YA-10 (later A-10) in the USA. I would guess the judges made the decision as to which one was best.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YA-9

Compare for yourself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frogfoot

There is evidence that this is a design purely developed in the U.S.S.R and not "borrowed" at all. Who knows?

Hopefully this isn't going offtopic too much, but what do we think about the replacement plans with the F-35?

swiftdraw · Post by **swiftdraw** » 2007-09-05 17:31

[R-MOD]Darkpowder wrote:Hopefully this isn't going offtopic too much, but what do we think about the replacement plans with the F-35?

That ain't happening until about 2015 (I think) according to my recruiting sergeant, even then the A-10 might get a extension because it is extremely good at what it does. Its like the B-52, its good at what it does and nothing else can quiet do it as efficiently, so why replace it? Retiring the A-10 has come up at least a few times before in the '90's and just before Afghanistan, but the decision to was proving a bit unpopular with the army putting forward the idea that if the Air Force did retire the A-10 they'd take it.

As for the Frogfoot as a rip off design, this is nothing new. Its widely believed MiG-25 was based off of the Avro Arrow, the Fencer is believed partly based off the F-111, the Blackjack off the B-1. Russians have a history of this sort of thing.

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2007-09-05 17:46

The C doesn't stand for Carrier, but for the version. You know, A, then B, then C.

EDIT: that's what happens when you get distracted before you press "post" >_<

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2007-09-05 18:09

swiftdraw wrote: As for the Frogfoot as a rip off design, this is nothing new. Its widely believed MiG-25 was based off of the Avro Arrow, the Fencer is believed partly based off the F-111, the Blackjack off the B-1. Russians have a history of this sort of thing.

And of course, the infamous Concordski