Why the vehicle hatred?

Tychandrus · Post by **Tychandrus** » 2005-12-14 15:37

You may have an idea there. What if we were to force the issue? To operate a tank properly, you need to have two people in it, otherwise it will not move, and will not shoot.

Rg · Post by Rg » 2005-12-14 19:18

Tychandrus wrote:DAWG, always the voice of reason.

What? I missed that, someone said you can't defend yourself as the Anti-Tank class? I feel insulted. I use that class quite extensively and it is armed with a very reliable pistol. If you don't know how to use it, well... I don't know how to help you. If your a compitent shot, then you can easily hold your own in a pinch, and it tends to give one a rewarding feeling to know he's held his own against an opponent armed with an assault rifle with nothing but a pistol.

Plus, you don't waste any rockets by using the pistol, so please quit insulting the pistol!

Of course you can somewhat defend youself, since you do have some kind of "bullet shooter" lol, but I mean honestly, how many times will you win a “close” gunfight against another class? Even when defending yourself, clearly, it’s the minority of times. The only chance you have of killing someone with your pistol is if you can get a few hits before he starts firing at you, he is already at low health, a headshot kill or the other guys completely sucks at aiming, lol. Of course, that is all at pretty close range. It takes 4 shots to the body with light armor and 6 shots to the body with heavy armor vs. rifles taking 2-3 light, 3-4 heavy armor. Chances are you don’t stand a chance.

That’s not the big issue here, it’s like I said before, we do NOT have players that want to be AT for the whole or a good portion of a round. You’ll be very lucky to get 1 guy to do that (Tychandrus might be that 1 guy, though I don't know if I have seen you play). The AT guy basically has to sit around or stay with his squad doing nothing until a vehicle appears.

Since nobody currently wants to be AT, because of this reason, when armor appears the guys that are about to spawn will spawn AT at their closest base or on the squad leader. Anyone else annoyed with this? Players should stick to their kits.

I used to be for, giving the AT class only a pistol until I noticed no one wants to use the class anymore. Give it the MP5 that was there before (obviously not as powerful and accurate as a rifle, but is decent in power and accuracy) and you will see a few people that will actually stay with that class for a whole round instead of just magically spawning AT when a threat appears.

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-14 19:30

Rg wrote:Of course you can somewhat defend youself, since you do have some kind of "bullet shooter" lol, but I mean honestly, how many times will you win a “close” gunfight against another class? Even when defending yourself, clearly, it’s the minority of times. The only chance you have of killing someone with your pistol is if you can get a few hits before he starts firing at you, he is already at low health, a headshot kill or the other guys completely sucks at aiming, lol. Of course, that is all at pretty close range. It takes 4 shots to the body with light armor and 6 shots to the body with heavy armor vs. rifles taking 2-3 light, 3-4 heavy armor. Chances are you don’t stand a chance.

That’s not the big issue here, it’s like I said before, we do NOT have players that want to be AT for the whole or a good portion of a round. You’ll be very lucky to get 1 guy to do that (Tychandrus might be that 1 guy, though I don't know if I have seen you play). The AT guy basically has to sit around or stay with his squad doing nothing until a vehicle appears.

Since nobody currently wants to be AT, because of this reason, when armor appears the guys that are about to spawn will spawn AT at their closest base or on the squad leader. Anyone else annoyed with this? Players should stick to their kits.

I used to be for, giving the AT class only a pistol until I noticed no one wants to use the class anymore. Give it the MP5 that was there before (obviously not as powerful and accurate as a rifle, but is decent in power and accuracy) and you will see a few people that will actually stay with that class for a whole round instead of just magically spawning AT when a threat appears.

Yes I find it annoying when people don't stick to their kits.

{GD}Snake13 · Post by **{GD}Snake13** » 2005-12-15 00:16

I don't know what server you've been playing on but there is always plenty of AT around.

I was playing it the other night, the pistol needs some work, It should not takes 6 rounds point blank to kill an unarmed target, pistols should be very powerful at close ranges, their failing is the fact their effective drops very steeply at range, but shooting someone who's in the same room with you they should be deadly

Lifetaker · Post by **Lifetaker** » 2005-12-15 01:37

{GD}Snake13 wrote:I was playing it the other night, the pistol needs some work, It should not takes 6 rounds point blank to kill an unarmed target, pistols should be very powerful at close ranges, their failing is the fact their effective drops very steeply at range, but shooting someone who's in the same room with you they should be deadly

Unfortunately, the pistols you are using in this game are not "powerful" at any range. They are 9mm variants and have been proven highly ineffective in combat. Also, it should be taken into account that your target is probably wearing a SAPI (small arms protective insert) in their vest. Standard SAPI can easily stop and disperse damage from multiple rounds by weapons firing up to 7.62 by 45mm. Therefore, even six rounds at close range to center mass are not going to stop your enemy.
http://www.firstdefense.com/html/Hard_Armor.htm

TII · Post by **TII** » 2005-12-15 20:23

'[R-PUB wrote:Lifetaker']Unfortunately, the pistols you are using in this game are not "powerful" at any range. They are 9mm variants and have been proven highly ineffective in combat. Also, it should be taken into account that your target is probably wearing a SAPI (small arms protective insert) in their vest. Standard SAPI can easily stop and disperse damage from multiple rounds by weapons firing up to 7.62 by 45mm. Therefore, even six rounds at close range to center mass are not going to stop your enemy.
http://www.firstdefense.com/html/Hard_Armor.htm

I don't imagine a real soldier taking 3 shots in the back from a M9 turning around and blowing away the guy with a burst from his AK either.

Lifetaker · Post by **Lifetaker** » 2005-12-15 20:40

S'pose it depends on what gear he's carrying. Moral of the story? Aim for the face!

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2005-12-15 21:41

'[R-PUB wrote:Lifetaker']S'pose it depends on what gear he's carrying. Moral of the story? Aim for the face!

I prefer aiming for the groin... It should be 1 hit kill too!

Lifetaker · Post by **Lifetaker** » 2005-12-15 23:56

Indeed. Man, this is going nowhere.

bigdaddydrew · Post by **bigdaddydrew** » 2005-12-19 23:32

It seems to me much of the armor problems could be solved by having a well-balanced squad. Properly placed explosives or an accurate AT guy would balance out armor. It would suck to be a medic running around fighting tanks. Thats why they should not be alone running around. Stay with a squad that has the proper means to defend itself from any attack. If you take the armor out you have CS, if we wanted to play CS we would play CS. from everythign I ahv eheard about this mod it is about more realism, what could be more real than people in a squad fulling their assigned roles? Assault is assaulting, medics are healing, support are supporting, AT are shooting armor.

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2005-12-20 10:09

bigdaddydrew wrote:It seems to me much of the armor problems could be solved by having a well-balanced squad. Properly placed explosives or an accurate AT guy would balance out armor. It would suck to be a medic running around fighting tanks. Thats why they should not be alone running around. Stay with a squad that has the proper means to defend itself from any attack. If you take the armor out you have CS, if we wanted to play CS we would play CS. from everythign I ahv eheard about this mod it is about more realism, what could be more real than people in a squad fulling their assigned roles? Assault is assaulting, medics are healing, support are supporting, AT are shooting armor.

Of course a balanced squad is the solution. But when there are 5 people on your team its hard to be balanced when those 5 have to spread out between 5 flags, a couple of tanks/APCs, helicopters and jets. If they are the "perfect" squad, the enemy will just bypass them all the time. The perfect game is where noone fights at all!!!

But you're right, on a 32-64 player games it not much of an issue.

Mtnman · Post by **Mtnman** » 2005-12-20 14:46

I too am not a big armor fan as it is now but it must remain in the game.

The anti armor post are correct. Very few that I have seen play the AT role because of the PDW they are issued. I think if you reinstated the MP5 & Bizon for this class you would see alot more guys using it. Then maybe the armor issue would calm down.

I also agree that spawn time for Tanks & APC's should be alot longer. This would eliminate someone charging in with one reaking havoc on infantry(which is what it does so well) by making these items very precious & not to be wasted because another one will pop up in a minute or two.
I like the idea of 2 or 3 guys in the tank before it can move. Is this possible? That is for the dev team to decide. Obviously something needs to be changed. That's what these suggestions are for. The PRMM team has done a fantastic job (for free, might I add) giving us what we want. A more realistic game of BF2.
It requires much talent & time to develop these things. Although some posters may sound somewhat "pissy" we are all here because we enjoy what the prmm team is giving us.( yet again, for free I might add).

It'll get itself straighened out, so most everyone will be happy. (Can't please them all)! So until then, play what you have & look forward to what they can develop for us down the road.

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-20 20:56

Mtnman wrote:I too am not a big armor fan as it is now but it must remain in the game.

The anti armor post are correct. Very few that I have seen play the AT role because of the PDW they are issued. I think if you reinstated the MP5 & Bizon for this class you would see alot more guys using it. Then maybe the armor issue would calm down.

I also agree that spawn time for Tanks & APC's should be alot longer. This would eliminate someone charging in with one reaking havoc on infantry(which is what it does so well) by making these items very precious & not to be wasted because another one will pop up in a minute or two.
I like the idea of 2 or 3 guys in the tank before it can move. Is this possible? That is for the dev team to decide. Obviously something needs to be changed. That's what these suggestions are for. The PRMM team has done a fantastic job (for free, might I add) giving us what we want. A more realistic game of BF2.
It requires much talent & time to develop these things. Although some posters may sound somewhat "pissy" we are all here because we enjoy what the prmm team is giving us.( yet again, for free I might add).

It'll get itself straighened out, so most everyone will be happy. (Can't please them all)! So until then, play what you have & look forward to what they can develop for us down the road.

I think having more than two people crewing a tank will take away from the infantry player base in a server. I don't advise it, developers team.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-12-20 20:58

The idea behind it is to make tanks require more teamwork rather than having a one man super soldier controlling every action of a tank.

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-20 21:18

'[R-PUB wrote:BrokenArrow']The idea behind it is to make tanks require more teamwork rather than having a one man super soldier controlling every action of a tank.

Ya that would be great, but the infantry would be too diluted if a tank required 3 men to man. And then you have APCs, choppers, humvees, jets... It would be great if we had 128 player servers, then none of this would be a problem.

Just make the tank turret moveable only with the "w,s, a, and d" keys, not with the mouse. And maybe make it so that you have to press a series of keys to get the loading sequence done.

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2005-12-20 21:40

'[R-PUB wrote:Armand61685']Ya that would be great, but the infantry would be too diluted if a tank required 3 men to man. And then you have APCs, choppers, humvees, jets... It would be great if we had 128 player servers, then none of this would be a problem.

Just make the tank turret moveable only with the "w,s, a, and d" keys, not with the mouse. And maybe make it so that you have to press a series of keys to get the loading sequence done.

But you shouldnt really have tanks if there arent enough to crew it... It would be interesting if PR implemented dynamic maps (the more players actually INGAME the more vehicles spawn). I know there is a script available to remove flags from 64p maps based on player counts, should be able to transfer that to vehicle spawns.

For example on Karkand US side, the APC shouldnt be allowed until there are like 10-12 players on the team and the tank shouldnt be allowed until around 20 peeps (the hummer would always be available).

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-20 21:41

dawdler wrote:But you shouldnt really have tanks if there arent enough to crew it... It would be interesting if PR implemented dynamic maps (the more players actually INGAME the more vehicles spawn). I know there is a script available to remove flags from 64p maps based on player counts, should be able to transfer that to vehicle spawns.

For example on Karkand US side, the APC shouldnt be allowed until there are like 10-12 players on the team and the tank shouldnt be allowed until around 20 peeps (the hummer would always be available).

Yea that would be great.

Post by **Hitperson** » 2005-12-21 23:22

The battle field is never equal in real life though so making it unequal is more realistic

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-22 00:23

Hitperson wrote:The battle field is never equal in real life though so making it unequal is more realistic

Yes, very true. And i'm a huge advocate of this.