Since the new patch is going to give more importance to the rally points by serving as a re-supply zone I really think that rally points should have a time limit after they get destroyed by the enemy. For example if you place a rally point on a place where it can be easy to spot it then it will be easy for the enemy to destroy it but most people don't even bother that much with it since they can place another one right after. I think that it should have a time limit like happens with the limited kits. If you lose your rally point you should lose points and have to wait a few minutes until you can place a new one. And the player who destroys it should be rewarded.
This simple sabotage missions on enemy rally points, commander assets or strategic locations like bridges or roads are very important since they delay the enemy enough for our assault teams to succeed on their missions.
For example, by destroying a rally point, respawn truck, bunker or even an apc you are delaying the enemy counter attack by limiting their respawn.
And by destroying bridges, mining roads or placing C4 on strategic places you will delay the enemy's armor support.
Players only give importance to assault missions and score is only given to those same missions. Whenever someone is trying to help on a recon or sabotage mission they are often insulted cause they aren't helping on the assault since others don't see the importance of these tasks.
The game itself has the means to do those missions even if they could be better. You have mining and detonation commands that can be used by the commander or SL and you have kits that include the tools needed for those tasks.
This tasks would be more important if the devs could help in that matter.
Some aspects that would help:
- Rally Point time limit
- Longer time for repairing bridges (like the timing of building a bunker)
- C4 recovery
- Recon & Sabotage kit (M14 with scope + 1 C4 + SOFLAM + 3 Field Dressings)
- Demolition Kit (M16 + 2 C4 + 1 Slam + 3 Field Dressings)
These kits would be for long surviving players deployed on enemy territory
And for Mining missions we would simply use the engineer kit and a supply truck.
Rally Points Time Limit
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.:iGi:. Greg
- Posts: 495
- Joined: 2006-04-27 19:46
I do agree that bridges shouldn't be repaired as instantly as they are, but in the game as a whole that isn't really a huge issue.
Not sure what C4 recovery means? But I like the sound of the Demolition Kit. The sort of sabotage missions you mention are hugely useful. But unfortunately the very nature of them means the player doing so will get moaned at and quite often kicked from the server for base raping, which is where the serer admins may need to look at that issue.
I see no problem in blowing up the assets in a main base and defending yourself whilst doing so, but then you should leave the base and do something else. It's when the player who has destroyed the assets, just stays in the main base shooting anyone that spawns that it becomes baseraping in my opinion.
As for the rally point time limit, couldn't disagree more. I see where you are coming from but the rally points are immensely important in winning a game. If you put a time limit on replacing a blown up RP you will only find a squad in chaos until they can put a new one or a SL having to hide for however many minutes until he can put another one down. I think with having 3 other squad members near you is good enough to promote teamwork, putting a time limit on replacing them just seems counter productive to all that.
Not sure what C4 recovery means? But I like the sound of the Demolition Kit. The sort of sabotage missions you mention are hugely useful. But unfortunately the very nature of them means the player doing so will get moaned at and quite often kicked from the server for base raping, which is where the serer admins may need to look at that issue.
I see no problem in blowing up the assets in a main base and defending yourself whilst doing so, but then you should leave the base and do something else. It's when the player who has destroyed the assets, just stays in the main base shooting anyone that spawns that it becomes baseraping in my opinion.
As for the rally point time limit, couldn't disagree more. I see where you are coming from but the rally points are immensely important in winning a game. If you put a time limit on replacing a blown up RP you will only find a squad in chaos until they can put a new one or a SL having to hide for however many minutes until he can put another one down. I think with having 3 other squad members near you is good enough to promote teamwork, putting a time limit on replacing them just seems counter productive to all that.
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billdan
- Posts: 319
- Joined: 2007-04-13 22:58
i like the longer bridge-repair time,C4 recovery (if possible), and the reward for the player who knifes rallies. however the rp time limit is bad for the reasons mentioned above. the 2 kits you suggested are a lonewolf's wetdream...(bad)
specops will be limited kits (multiple SF loadouts-ie "SF captain", "SF weapons sgt", "SF demolition",etc-if squad specialization works) in .7
specops will be limited kits (multiple SF loadouts-ie "SF captain", "SF weapons sgt", "SF demolition",etc-if squad specialization works) in .7
|TG-69th|Mix0lydian in-game
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Onil
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: 2007-08-19 09:50
About the C4 recovery it is already on another post made by me aswell... you can recover your mines but not your C4 and that doesn't help..
The objective of those kits is for a squad of no more then 4 players that would have the mission of recon and sabotage. Of course it could be a bit lonewolf but isn't usually that the objective of a recon? as it is usually the same with snipers?
About the time limit on rally points it's not that big of a deal... can't you wait 2 minutes until you're able to put a new one? usually you're busy assaulting until you realize that the RP is gone unless your squad members are always dying and respawning there but even if you do have a RP you also use SL to respawn tho.
This way you would give more importance to your RP and hide it carefully. And yes it is the SL responsibility to keep alive so that others can respawn on him if they can't respawn on the rally point, maybe you will defend your SL better then letting him die just cause he can respawn at RP.
Leading the way doesn't mean the SL has to be the pointman of the squad and if you do lose the RP you will definably need the SL alive and not bleeding. I really think this would improve teamplay as it gives more importance to the RP and SL that are extremely necessary to win the round. And that's why i also think players that destroy the rally points or other enemy assets should be awarded.
About the sabotage mission yes i agree that most players whine about it and call it base camping when it is made in enemy base (not always) but base camping is respawn killing and it's wrong either it is on the base or not. Your main objective as a member of a sabotage squad is not to get seen so no point in shooting... if you do get seen then no point in going for the enemy base anymore and if you're already there, just get out... If you don't get seen and find the enemy assets, blow them all at once so that the enemy only realizes you are there after you completed your mission.
Last time i did that i didn't found the commanders assets there and so i placed C4 on one of the entrances of their base so i could blow up and APC that was about to leave. Vehicles are important assets aswell and should be blown when you got the chance, doesn't matter if you're in enemy base or not. And it was necessary to cover our escape since it was desert and not that much cover. I never shot my riffle while i was in enemy base and yes i did killed some guys but they where on the vehicles.
I do not think that is base camping as i got out right after that but i was called a base camper and of course the admin was also whining that i should know better... He should think twice about whats base camping and whats sabotage. If you don't want people going for the enemy base when it still can't be assaulted then put the assets somewhere else.
I do love the idea of Squad Specialization as it is hard as hell to get the pilot kit for example cause some noob already got it and of course he blows the heli 1 minute after. And i like to use the heli for those sabotage missions while also helping on the transport and repairs on our vehicles.
The objective of those kits is for a squad of no more then 4 players that would have the mission of recon and sabotage. Of course it could be a bit lonewolf but isn't usually that the objective of a recon? as it is usually the same with snipers?
About the time limit on rally points it's not that big of a deal... can't you wait 2 minutes until you're able to put a new one? usually you're busy assaulting until you realize that the RP is gone unless your squad members are always dying and respawning there but even if you do have a RP you also use SL to respawn tho.
This way you would give more importance to your RP and hide it carefully. And yes it is the SL responsibility to keep alive so that others can respawn on him if they can't respawn on the rally point, maybe you will defend your SL better then letting him die just cause he can respawn at RP.
Leading the way doesn't mean the SL has to be the pointman of the squad and if you do lose the RP you will definably need the SL alive and not bleeding. I really think this would improve teamplay as it gives more importance to the RP and SL that are extremely necessary to win the round. And that's why i also think players that destroy the rally points or other enemy assets should be awarded.
About the sabotage mission yes i agree that most players whine about it and call it base camping when it is made in enemy base (not always) but base camping is respawn killing and it's wrong either it is on the base or not. Your main objective as a member of a sabotage squad is not to get seen so no point in shooting... if you do get seen then no point in going for the enemy base anymore and if you're already there, just get out... If you don't get seen and find the enemy assets, blow them all at once so that the enemy only realizes you are there after you completed your mission.
Last time i did that i didn't found the commanders assets there and so i placed C4 on one of the entrances of their base so i could blow up and APC that was about to leave. Vehicles are important assets aswell and should be blown when you got the chance, doesn't matter if you're in enemy base or not. And it was necessary to cover our escape since it was desert and not that much cover. I never shot my riffle while i was in enemy base and yes i did killed some guys but they where on the vehicles.
I do not think that is base camping as i got out right after that but i was called a base camper and of course the admin was also whining that i should know better... He should think twice about whats base camping and whats sabotage. If you don't want people going for the enemy base when it still can't be assaulted then put the assets somewhere else.
I do love the idea of Squad Specialization as it is hard as hell to get the pilot kit for example cause some noob already got it and of course he blows the heli 1 minute after. And i like to use the heli for those sabotage missions while also helping on the transport and repairs on our vehicles.
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maz.uk
- Posts: 244
- Joined: 2007-07-30 10:08
im one of those admins that dosnt see the point in being in the main base as its not bf2 yea in bf2 blow the artilary woz a massive help , but in pr your time and effort is better used blowing an apc in the map helping your troops to advance and take maps ,no one is going to spawn in an apc at main when there is one in the map close to there flag they need to take, would be better for you to destroy that apc than one thats taken you half an hour to get accros map for you only get the ammo to blow one apc up if that ..
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Onil
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: 2007-08-19 09:50
maz have you ever thought that some people might actually like sabotage missions?
and of course we don't go to the enemies main base to blow up vehicles... we go for other assets but while we're there sometimes it is necessary to blow some vehicles in order to escape alive. And you can get ammo from their vehicles aswell so you can blow how many you'ld like.
and of course we don't go to the enemies main base to blow up vehicles... we go for other assets but while we're there sometimes it is necessary to blow some vehicles in order to escape alive. And you can get ammo from their vehicles aswell so you can blow how many you'ld like.
Last edited by Onil on 2007-09-02 22:55, edited 1 time in total.
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system
- Posts: 231
- Joined: 2007-03-17 01:24
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maz.uk
- Posts: 244
- Joined: 2007-07-30 10:08
yes ambush missions are good on say mestia meeting apcs in the road , i will always send two guys to the road and let them get to work on in coming troops or go find there supply truck ,i my self just dont see any point in going in to a main base unless to cap it , think its unfair for players to spawn walk around a corner or walk to there jeep,apc or wot ever and get killed , its like a sniper sat over there main base picking players of as they spawn they could just say they are doing the same thing ,we could go on for ever with this 
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.Intense
- Posts: 196
- Joined: 2007-08-28 10:39
That's a simple fix on the lonewolf part... require them to "keep" the kit as long as they have 3 squad members near them that does a "check" every 3 minutes...billdan wrote:i like the longer bridge-repair time,C4 recovery (if possible), and the reward for the player who knifes rallies. however the rp time limit is bad for the reasons mentioned above. the 2 kits you suggested are a lonewolf's wetdream...(bad)
specops will be limited kits (multiple SF loadouts-ie "SF captain", "SF weapons sgt", "SF demolition",etc-if squad specialization works) in .7
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AnRK
- Posts: 2136
- Joined: 2007-03-27 14:17
The way bridges work in game at the moment is going to be massively overhauled in future releases. Hopefully sooner rather then later.Onil wrote: And by destroying bridges, mining roads or placing C4 on strategic places you will delay the enemy's armor support.
On the subject is there ever going to be any way of blowing up the rail bridge on Qwai? That'd be sweet.
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Onil
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: 2007-08-19 09:50
once again u're totally missing the point... there's a big difference between sabotage mission on enemy base and base camping.. what're you're describing is base camping! I can go to the enemy base without being seen and blow their assets up without even having tho shoot anyone! Problem is that it doesn't really matter if you kill someone or not... everyone will call you a base camper just for being there even if you do nothing!maz.uk wrote:yes ambush missions are good on say mestia meeting apcs in the road , i will always send two guys to the road and let them get to work on in coming troops or go find there supply truck ,i my self just dont see any point in going in to a main base unless to cap it , think its unfair for players to spawn walk around a corner or walk to there jeep,apc or wot ever and get killed , its like a sniper sat over there main base picking players of as they spawn they could just say they are doing the same thing ,we could go on for ever with this
Learn the difference between base camping and stealth sabotage and you'll get it!
I agree with the idea of squad limit for those demolition and recon kits
it would work as the officers kit works so that you can only have it if you have 3 members on the squad and that way you won't have much people using it for lone wolf action even tho those missions are indeed for low number of squad members. I would say 4 members tops.