Mount a red-dot scope on all US M-16.

<<SpanishSurfer>> · Post by **<<SpanishSurfer>>** » 2007-09-06 13:30

No, it's not realistic by today's standards but I know the US Army/Marines will replace the iron sight system with a red-dot scope in the future. Give us all a red-dot! At least give the rifleman a red dot.

Currently I'm not a fan of the M16 on PR and I want to be. It's a great gun that isn't receiving the justice it deserves.

BF2 is staged slightly in the future, is PR?

What do you all think?

gazzthompson · Post by **gazzthompson** » 2007-09-06 13:32

<<SpanishSurfer>> wrote:No, it's not realistic by today's standards but I know the US Army/Marines will replace the iron sight system with a red-dot scope in the future. Give us all a red-dot! At least give the rifleman a red dot.

Currently I'm not a fan of the M16 on PR and I want to be. It's a great gun that isn't receiving the justice it deserves.

BF2 is staged slightly in the future, is PR?

What do you all think?

could u provide some proof of the us army/marines future use of red dot scope ? ive just never heard that, thanks.

Reddish Red · Post by **Reddish Red** » 2007-09-06 13:40

I think any suggestion of

"They will be using it in the Future" is Pritty much ignored.

Anyway M16's will get ACOQ Scope for Rifleman and Officer in 0.7.. so be Patient.

Cp · Post by Cp » 2007-09-06 16:02

also the red dot "scope" on the M4 isnt a scope, it has no more zoom than any other ironsight in PR.

billdan · Post by **billdan** » 2007-09-06 16:13

US Marines issue the 4x32mm Trijicon ACOG scope to most all active frontline rifleman. the M16a4 w/ ACOG, vertical handgrip, and (nonfunctioning) ANPEQ visible/infrared laser will be in .7

as of right now the USMC rifleman M16a2 has a 4x zoom placeholder to reduce balance issues.
just be patient

however i think you are not mistaken about the US Army and it's use of Aimpoint compII red dots. while the USMC's official and issued optic is the ACOG, the US Army's official and issued optic is the Aimpoint. for balance issues i think the DEVs might just give the US Army ACOGs, though...

ACOGs in the Army, Aimpoints in the Marines, and EOTech Holograph sights in both services are almost privately owned, i believe.

simply put: Army has mostly M4s with Aimpoint red dots. Marine Corps has mostly M16A4 w/ ACOG

some1 correct me on this?

ArmedDrunk&Angry · Post by **ArmedDrunk&Angry** » 2007-09-06 16:22

I don't like the red-dot scope but in some cases the full auto of the SF kit is worth dealing with it.

{GD}Ghost · Post by **{GD}Ghost** » 2007-09-06 17:14

The spec ops kit isn't for long range engagements. If I know I'm going to be doing some up close and personal type work, I'll take it.

I am in favor of using equiptment that is currently in use only.

WNxKenwayy · Post by **WNxKenwayy** » 2007-09-06 17:34

billdan wrote:US Marines issue the 4x32mm Trijicon ACOG scope to most all active frontline rifleman. the M16a4 w/ ACOG, vertical handgrip, and (nonfunctioning) ANPEQ visible/infrared laser will be in .7

as of right now the USMC rifleman M16a2 has a 4x zoom placeholder to reduce balance issues.
just be patient

however i think you are not mistaken about the US Army and it's use of Aimpoint compII red dots. while the USMC's official and issued optic is the ACOG, the US Army's official and issued optic is the Aimpoint. for balance issues i think the DEVs might just give the US Army ACOGs, though...

ACOGs in the Army, Aimpoints in the Marines, and EOTech Holograph sights in both services are almost privately owned, i believe.

simply put: Army has mostly M4s with Aimpoint red dots. Marine Corps has mostly M16A4 w/ ACOG

some1 correct me on this?

Pretty much. In the US Army,out of a platoon of 30, 2/3 will have M68's (red dot no zoom aimpoints) the others will have ACOG's. That's a rough estimate based on current equipment levels.

Post by **Hitperson** » 2007-09-06 17:40

which acogs do they use??

i love the ones with the little iron sights and the ikkle reflex sight.

Post by **Jaymz** » 2007-09-06 17:44

Cp20000 wrote:also the red dot "scope" on the M4 isnt a scope, it has no more zoom than any other ironsight in PR.

That is an M68 Aimpoint. It's a reflex sight, not a scope. It has no zoom. It's purpose is to allow the shooter to aquire their targets faster and with more ease.

Cp · Post by Cp » 2007-09-06 18:08

yes? that was what I was said? or werent I clear enough?

SpanishSurfer wanted it on the riflemans m16 but the rifleman needs a scope with zoom to balance it with the chinese type 95 (?) and the Mec G3. therefor I thought that he thought that the red-dot aimpoint laser reflex whatever sight had zoom and I was only trying to clear it out.

or have I misunderstood everything?

Post by **Jaymz** » 2007-09-06 19:01

Cp20000 wrote:yes? that was what I was said? or werent I clear enough?

SpanishSurfer wanted it on the riflemans m16 but the rifleman needs a scope with zoom to balance it with the chinese type 95 (?) and the Mec G3. therefor I thought that he thought that the red-dot aimpoint laser reflex whatever sight had zoom and I was only trying to clear it out.

or have I misunderstood everything?

My bad...

blud · Post by **blud** » 2007-09-06 19:18

I don't like the red dot idea, but this got me thinking, right now the m16 rifleman and officer have a big zoom without an actual modeled scope right... and they just have this hackish zoom that doesn't make sense but is done for fairness.

Well, why not go 1 step beyond that, and replace that hackish zoom where you still see the gun, with the 2D zoomed in view that you would have if the scope was on the gun??? It seems to me like it would be very easy to put into the game, and it could look exactly how the scope view is going to look when they get it finished. Of course the gun model would have no scope on it, so it would be strange that you can right click on it and all of a sudden be looking through a scope that isn't actually there, but it's not any more weird than the zoom you have now, but it would actually be SO much better. (this is of course temporary till the scope is m16a4 (or whatever the gun is) is done.

Post by **Jaymz** » 2007-09-06 19:21

'[T wrote:BludShoT;478180']I don't like the red dot idea, but this got me thinking, right now the m16 rifleman and officer have a big zoom without an actual modeled scope right... and they just have this hackish zoom that doesn't make sense but is done for fairness.

Well, why not go 1 step beyond that, and replace that hackish zoom where you still see the gun, with the 2D zoomed in view that you would have if the scope was on the gun??? It seems to me like it would be very easy to put into the game, and it could look exactly how the scope view is going to look when they get it finished. Of course the gun model would have no scope on it, so it would be strange that you can right click on it and all of a sudden be looking through a scope that isn't actually there, but it's not any more weird than the zoom you have now, but it would actually be SO much better. (this is of course temporary till the scope is m16a4 (or whatever the gun is) is done.

What's the point? There'll be an ACOG on the M4 and M16A4 when 0.7 comes around.

billdan · Post by **billdan** » 2007-09-06 19:24

perhaps the US Army could get acogs on rifleman and officer M4s, but also Aimpoints on medic, grenadier, possibly engineers M4 so to make up for the M4's low damage and bullet drop.

if another rifleman class is to replace sf in .7,maybe the US Army can also be the only faction to have that new class with optics: M68 red dot.

i can't think of any other way to force 2/3 of the US Army team to carry Aimpoint M4's

Post by **Jaymz** » 2007-09-06 20:51

billdan wrote:perhaps the US Army could get acogs on rifleman and officer M4s, but also Aimpoints on medic, grenadier, possibly engineers M4 so to make up for the M4's low damage and bullet drop.

if another rifleman class is to replace sf in .7,maybe the US Army can also be the only faction to have that new class with optics: M68 red dot.

i can't think of any other way to force 2/3 of the US Army team to carry Aimpoint M4's

I'm with you 100% on that but unfortunately we don't have an aimpoint modeled and we currently have a lot of modeling/texturing tasks going on. Funny you mention it because we (devs) just had a huge argument about it.

LtSoucy · Post by **LtSoucy** » 2007-09-06 20:55

NO they all dont! mostly small amounts due. YES FUTURE! But we are not there yet. ok if u want to show use a photo that every US soldier in a company has a "RED DOT" on his gun show it.

Post by **Jaymz** » 2007-09-06 21:41

LtSoucy wrote:NO they all dont! mostly small amounts due. YES FUTURE! But we are not there yet. ok if u want to show use a photo that every US soldier in a company has a "RED DOT" on his gun show it.

so you're saying that the US army only uses M68s in small amounts? If so, that's incorrect.

Post by **Mongolian_dude** » 2007-09-06 22:13

Well, it has to be said that the M16 is current "The worst assault rifle i have ever seen!" and i reckon "My grandmother could do better!".

Every rifleman you come up against, with the A2 in your hands, feels like he's a marksman, that hits harder than you; hits further than you and more times and faster than you.
I absolutely ADORE the idea of each and every US soldier having a red dot sight, to give the damn M16 a strong point(accuracy and ease) over the other rifles(that said, all assault rifles are too accurate atm from the prone position right now). it'd distinguish each faction even further as each mainstay rifle would have its strong points and its weak points(as opposed to the US having ALL the weak points). It'd be a factor that'd allow more tactical thinking and maneuvers, based on your own logistics and that of the opposition.

I can't see any other approach that'd be more fitting.

...mongol...

Teek · Post by **Teek** » 2007-09-06 22:51

M16 in game is weaksause, too much recoil, too little damage and advrage accuracy. a aimpoint or Acog may help compensate.
If the Canadian forces get Elcans on all C7s, then US army should get M68 on all except Rifleman/ officer.