un-nerf medic

hoc_xfirestormx · Post by **hoc_xfirestormx** » 2007-09-23 05:44

pasfreak wrote:maybe we could give the medic a or 1.5x or 1x reflex sight, instead of the 4x one that the regular rifleman gets?
people would definitely want to play medic more, like they should and you would usually have one or two per squad on average, but it wouldn't make the kit a whole lot better. just more fun to play.

works for me. i dont need a super scope, but something other than nothing would be nice.

pasfreak · Post by **pasfreak** » 2007-09-23 05:59

.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever wrote:I have witnessed no nerfing of the medic. It's fine the way it is at the moment, well balanced between mobility & self heal which counters lack of armour.

there's no "self heal" unless you count field dressings, which is something every soldier gets.

you get three of them, just like an officer.

the main problem I see, is that medic is just not played as often as it should be.

MANY times, I have been wounded, called for a medic, only to find that in almost all cases there are NO medics on the map, or at the very most one or two, too far away to help. and then i have to sit there and bleed to death.

go join a server, play for ten minutes, and then hit tab and tell me how many medics are playing at the moment. one? two? maybe three?

on a 32 player team (64 p. server)

there should be at LEAST 5 or 6 medics, possibly up to 8 or 9. one per squad at least.

it ruins teamwork when the classic "vBF2" qualities such as resupply, repair, and healing are not utilized in PR.

these things are used IRL, and its great for gameplay.

people just dont like to play it because its just slightly too weak. I know i would rather be spec ops or engie than medic, just because you can do more. (you have a scope/full auto, or you have a wrench, c4 and mines)

if you just gave the medic/corpsman kit something that people like but is NOT necessarily an improvement over the current kit, more people would like to play it.

these things include but are not limited to

(pick one)

reflex sights, or 1.5x scopes

maybe an extra field dressing or two at the least

an extra smoke nade, or a frag grenade or two.

etc.

you can't just say "i like medic how it is"
when it is blatantly obvious that people like it LESS than they used to, and it is underplayed for it's importance.

mammikoura · Post by **mammikoura** » 2007-09-23 06:34

pasfreak wrote:there's no "self heal" unless you count field dressings, which is something every soldier gets.

yes there is. Take out med kit, stand up, look down, hold left mouse button.

pasfreak wrote:people just dont like to play it because its just slightly too weak. I know i would rather be spec ops or engie than medic, just because you can do more.

so for example. The british spec ops is better than the british medic simply because he has a 0x zoon scope instead of the iron sight?
The fact that the scope doesn't really give you any advantage apart from having a slightly better view of the surroundings while aiming still makes the kit better than the medic who can heal themselves, other teammates and revive critically wounded teammates. I just don't see how that red dot scope makes the spec ops class so good.

Same with engineer, you pretty much have the same offencive capabilities, except engi can take out vehicles if you get close enough. You can also fix friendly vehicles. But since friendly troops need healing a lot more often than friendly vehicles need repairing the medic will help more.

pasfreak wrote:you can't just say "i like medic how it is"

why? Aren't we allowed to have our own opinions anymore? If he likes the kit he can say that he likes it.

Overall I think the medic kit is one of the best kits in the game. (including limited kits) If there aren't enough medics that is a problem caused by the players, not a problem caused by a weak kit. For example the spec ops kit is probably the worst kit there is yet you do see a lot of spec ops guys running around.

And finally, if you are frustrated because you can't get a medic to heal you make your own squad and tell 1 or 2 guys to be medics. That way you have medics in your squad and you should have no problem to get a medic to help you when needed.

RHYS4190 · Post by **RHYS4190** » 2007-09-23 06:41

hoc_xfirestormx wrote:the scope is the problem. medics are in the wide open with a lot of the new maps with no way to defend themselves. since bf2 has the draw problem where from long distances you can see figures but once you zoom in its a sand dune with someone behind it, it makes things very hard for medics.

Yeah I agree medic kit is under used because it does not have a 4 + zoom or a 4+ scope . So no one wants to play as medic because it does not have a zoom or scope. Needs a scope or a zoom other wise no one gona want to use it. I remember that a guy said to me one time that medics in PR should not be given a zoom or a scope because medic aren’t suppose to fight there job is to heal not to kill in real life. you can't shoot in this game accuritly at long range or any range with out a 4+ zoom or scope. Now I felt like taking that guys head and shoving it up his bum (excuse me for my crude ness) because he had no idea what he was on about. Medics in real WORLD are riflemen who are trained in first aid. So this mentality in this game about medic not fighting if ridiculous (excuse me again). So in the real military the medic would be issued the same weapon as the riflemen. So what im saying is it unrealistic for medics not to be given a zoom or scope when the riflemen are given them because if fact medics are riflemen. Come on army blokes Diggers come back me up every one back me up here you army guys know im right in this.

mammikoura · Post by **mammikoura** » 2007-09-23 07:37

RHYS4190 wrote:you can't shoot in this game accuritly at long range or any range with out a 4+ zoom or scope.

I have to disagree. The iron sight is fine for ranges like <300m.

Just think about what you are asking.
Basically a rifleman who switched his grenades for the ability to heal himself and his teammates and revive people.

Why would anyone use any other kit since you would pretty much have a kit which combines the best qualities of the marksman and medic kit. You can engage targets at very long ranges and you can heal. Pretty much the only thing that you don't have is anti-armor capability.

Post by **bosco_** » 2007-09-23 09:43

I always choose medic when it comes to CQB, because he has no optics, body armor and can heal himself (with his many fielddressings).

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-09-23 09:46

I only want 12 bandages instead of 3, since when a bloodbath occurs, there's too many people to patch up

Other than that its perfectly fine. And iron sights are also fine, makes me want to use that kit in CQC rather than some stupid Spec OP...

Warmagi · Post by **Warmagi** » 2007-09-23 10:01

pasfreak wrote:you can't just say "i like medic how it is"
when it is blatantly obvious that people like it LESS than they used to, and it is underplayed for it's importance.

Watch me: I LIKE MEDIC HOW IT IS. And what now?!

People don't like medic class LESS, they like less the thing that a medic is not a SUPERIOR class as it was. A lot of ppl were playing medic not because they wanted to play a medic, but because it gave them everythin that went with rifleman plus ability to heal themself in the middle of nowhere where they were lonewolfing. SO PLEASE, EVERY1 STOP SAYING IT WOULD BE BETTER WITH A SCOPE OR NADES. Go back to vanila if u want nades.Medic is a very good class, and if u play AS A MEDIC, staying alive, not taking unnesecery risks, and u will find yourself in many situations when your whole squad is down, u r taking down guy that did it to your buddies and then your whole aquad is saying THANK YOU, you the man, you are great, keep the good work.

MEDIC requeastable?? Maybe... but that would make even less ppl play medic as it would be harder to get after u die, and it is very easy to die as a medic, cause apart from SL u are most important target for enemy.
Medic class is for a PRO players not for rambos. Its good, and I hope it stays that way!! Thank you for your attention.

M4nicMin3r · Post by **M4nicMin3r** » 2007-09-23 10:21

I think the problem with medic now compared to what it was like, is that you HAVE to think about how you play. Ok not so much of a problem, but if you were used to the vbf2esque style of medic play you'd be disappointed with how it plays out now.

Only having iron sights makes you very dependant on your squadmates. However ive found medic class to be awesome in CQB, out in the open you have to play safety tactics a lot. Its now a class you have to think a lot about situation awareness and not just running around amassing points for revives and heals.

I sort of know how you feel about this as i used to play nothing but medic but i found it made me into a points catching whore which used to be easy to do. Now when i play medic its for the squad rather than the points, that can only be a good thing right?

I think YES, it is harder to play medic now but its better in the long run for teamplay.

Ragni<RangersPL> · Post by **Ragni<RangersPL>** » 2007-09-23 11:32

I LIKE TO PLAY AS A MEDIC HOW IT IS NOW!
The only thing that i would change is a number of field dressings, sometimes more field dressings are needed (6 or 10 maybe). There was situation when I had to revive 5 of my squadmates (including SL) in the middle of fight so more field dressings were needed (there was no time for using medic bags).

mammikoura · Post by **mammikoura** » 2007-09-23 12:17

Ragni<RangersPL> wrote:I LIKE TO PLAY AS A MEDIC HOW IT IS NOW!
The only thing that i would change is a number of field dressings, sometimes more field dressings are needed (6 or 10 maybe). There was situation when I had to revive 5 of my squadmates (including SL) in the middle of fight so more field dressings were needed (there was no time for using medic bags).

and if you get 10 field dressings you can heal 3 guys in 2 seconds. Realistic? No. Balance issues? Yes

Sometimes the current amount does feel like it's not enough, but in a situation like yours throwing all of the field dressings down helps a lot. And don't throw them in the same spot because then you get 1 guy with full health and the rest don't get anything. Just throwing them around and then healing them one at a time works well.
I've had that kind of situations where there are 4 guys I've been trying to heal at the same time. And non of them bled out. It's hard and sure throwing 10 field dressings at them would be easier, but there has to be some challenge.

.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever · Post by **.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever** » 2007-09-23 13:29

pasfreak wrote:there's no "self heal" unless you count field dressings, which is something every soldier gets.

you get three of them, just like an officer.

the main problem I see, is that medic is just not played as often as it should be.

MANY times, I have been wounded, called for a medic, only to find that in almost all cases there are NO medics on the map, or at the very most one or two, too far away to help. and then i have to sit there and bleed to death.

go join a server, play for ten minutes, and then hit tab and tell me how many medics are playing at the moment. one? two? maybe three?

on a 32 player team (64 p. server)

there should be at LEAST 5 or 6 medics, possibly up to 8 or 9. one per squad at least.

it ruins teamwork when the classic "vBF2" qualities such as resupply, repair, and healing are not utilized in PR.

these things are used IRL, and its great for gameplay.

people just dont like to play it because its just slightly too weak. I know i would rather be spec ops or engie than medic, just because you can do more. (you have a scope/full auto, or you have a wrench, c4 and mines)

if you just gave the medic/corpsman kit something that people like but is NOT necessarily an improvement over the current kit, more people would like to play it.

these things include but are not limited to

(pick one)

reflex sights, or 1.5x scopes

maybe an extra field dressing or two at the least

an extra smoke nade, or a frag grenade or two.

etc.

you can't just say "i like medic how it is"
when it is blatantly obvious that people like it LESS than they used to, and it is underplayed for it's importance.

Please don't take this reply as a flame but your whole statement is fundamentally flawed.

If you're concerned at the lack of medics in your squad then play as a medic once in a while and see what a different style of game you need to play. We're not running around the map picking wildflowers while the fighting's going on.

If you're not being healed/revived, ask yourself the following:

Were you brought down in a hotzone? If so, no sane medic is going to come charging to your rescue, get shot then end up as another man-down for their squad.
Are you in a squad with a medic? If so, why were you nowhere near his position?
Are you the squad leader? Why did you not insist on at least one of your squad taking medic class?
Are the medics you're screaming for even in your squad? Bear in mind, your objective is not the be all and end all. We'll be doing the thing we're meant to do: sticking with OUR squad, medding OUR squad members as a priority, following OUR squad leader's orders and trying to achieve OUR objective at the same time as trying not to get slotted ourselves.

I can "blatantly" say I like medic as it is (I liked medic class in previous version; go figure).

Medics don't need scoped weapons. It's been said so many times before in so many related posts: Medic is a support class, long rang sharpshooting is for other classes. We don't have the time to weapon-up, take careful aim, squeeze of a round and smile smugly (well, not too often

) at the same time as throwing patches, medding wounded and reviving men down.

When the long-range shooting is being done by your squad, look behind you. Who's there? Your medic should be, ready to revive your *** when you've been counter-sniped and are screaming for first aid.

And the golden rule: read my sig. Follow us into cover; cover we've selected as the best place to med you not the hornet's nest of hot lead you think is a safe place to be healed and carry on racking up you K/D ratio. Don't expect us to follow you into perceived glory and certain death. Remember, we're not running away scared after we've revived you, we just want you to switch on and follow us to safety.

If you don't follow me after I've risked my own *** to revive you then you're worm-food. I rarely come back for a second revive and neither do most medics worth their salt.

Here endeth the rant

Ragni<RangersPL> · Post by **Ragni<RangersPL>** » 2007-09-23 13:31

mammikoura wrote:I've had that kind of situations where there are 4 guys I've been trying to heal at the same time. And non of them bled out. It's hard and sure throwing 10 field dressings at them would be easier, but there has to be some challenge.

My squadmates also didn't bleed out. There was a second medic in my squad

... I revived him as first and then SL as second

. It's good to have two medics in a squad

.

pasfreak · Post by **pasfreak** » 2007-09-23 14:44

i don't think people are understanding the point here, even though i have said it over and over again. this is really turning into a flame war.

pasfreak · Post by **pasfreak** » 2007-09-23 15:01

i am NOT for making the medic kit any better than in already is

i AM for making the medic kit "cooler" and a "more attractive option" to the player, so the correct number of people use the thing!

seriously, people ranting on about how I should play medic more often...you might as well tell this to EVERYONE, because one person really isn't going to make a difference.

and if more classes had optics, rifleman, medic and gren and officer, it would add realism!
because IRL, 2/3rds of most modern infantry (so excluding insurgents/militia obviously) uses an optic sight!
i am NOT saying at a 4x zoom 1337 *** telescopic sniper acog for the medic kit!
i'm saying add something like an m68 aimpoint or something trivial that has no effect on gameplay except bring the kit back to its former glory!

mammikoura · Post by **mammikoura** » 2007-09-23 15:02

.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever wrote: And the golden rule: Follow us into cover; cover we've selected as the best place to med you not the hornet's nest of hot lead you think is a safe place to be healed and carry on racking up you K/D ratio. Don't expect us to follow you into perceived glory and certain death.

exactly! Thank you for posting that!
Too many people just take off and find themselves a spot which allows them to shoot at the enemies. Since I'm a nice guy I sometimes go after them, but I just hate to risk my *** running around without any real cover just because he wanted to get a few kills. We as medics like to do our job, but it's extremely hard if people don't do what we want them to do.

This just happened 1h ago on thors brigade. I was behind a few rocks taking cover and I see someone go down pretty close to me. Well I start moving to his position, I take out the guy who killed him, I revive him and start walking to the forest just behind us to find some cover.
But no, this dude think it's s smart move to run to my previous position, which actually provided great cover but unfortunately was pretty much surrounded by enemies. Good choise? maybe not..
So I run after him, then there is this 3rd guy (the other guys squad mate) and he gets killed too, so I start to move to his position. Someone flanks us, well I kill him, but not before he manages to kill the guy I just revived 30 seconds ago.

Well I proceed to revive him again and get shot while charging my shock paddles.

Thinking about it now I probably shouldn't have bothered....

hoc_xfirestormx · Post by **hoc_xfirestormx** » 2007-09-23 15:28

.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever wrote:Please don't take this reply as a flame but your whole statement is fundamentally flawed.

If you're concerned at the lack of medics in your squad then play as a medic once in a while and see what a different style of game you need to play. We're not running around the map picking wildflowers while the fighting's going on.

If you're not being healed/revived, ask yourself the following:

Were you brought down in a hotzone? If so, no sane medic is going to come charging to your rescue, get shot then end up as another man-down for their squad.

Are you in a squad with a medic? If so, why were you nowhere near his position?

Are you the squad leader? Why did you not insist on at least one of your squad taking medic class?

Are the medics you're screaming for even in your squad? Bear in mind, your objective is not the be all and end all. We'll be doing the thing we're meant to do: sticking with OUR squad, medding OUR squad members as a priority, following OUR squad leader's orders and trying to achieve OUR objective at the same time as trying not to get slotted ourselves.
I can "blatantly" say I like medic as it is (I liked medic class in previous version; go figure).

Medics don't need scoped weapons. It's been said so many times before in so many related posts: Medic is a support class, long rang sharpshooting is for other classes. We don't have the time to weapon-up, take careful aim, squeeze of a round and smile smugly (well, not too often ) at the same time as throwing patches, medding wounded and reviving men down.

When the long-range shooting is being done by your squad, look behind you. Who's there? Your medic should be, ready to revive your *** when you've been counter-sniped and are screaming for first aid.

And the golden rule: read my sig. Follow us into cover; cover we've selected as the best place to med you not the hornet's nest of hot lead you think is a safe place to be healed and carry on racking up you K/D ratio. Don't expect us to follow you into perceived glory and certain death. Remember, we're not running away scared after we've revived you, we just want you to switch on and follow us to safety.

If you don't follow me after I've risked my own *** to revive you then you're worm-food. I rarely come back for a second revive and neither do most medics worth their salt.

Here endeth the rant

this is almost completely off topic. the thread isnt titled "guys i keep dying because there are no medics! what am i doing wrong lol?". you say medic is a support kit. as in, a kit that gives out support. like... a rifleman? since they give out... ammo? and they have... scopes? OMFG BUT THEY SHOULD BE GIVING OUT AMMO WHEN THEY ARE ZOOMING IN AND SHOOTING LOL! the point is that the ironsites for medics are useless unless you are right in front of an enemy. 1.5 or 2x zoom ftw. with the superscopes that riflemen have now, its a full fledged sniper fest. except that the mec, pla, and brits have fully automatic snipers, while the us has a semi automatic rifle with an iron sight that is known to be incorrect (middle part [that points to where you are shooting] is too wide). so youre putting a usmc medic in with a team full of usmc snipers who have inferior weapons and then giving the usmc medic a peashooter. GG.

.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever · Post by **.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever** » 2007-09-23 15:29

pasfreak, the first sentence in my reply stated that I was not instigating a flame war but putting across, IMHO, a valid point of view and defence of the medic class

If A straw poll of dedicated medics (not the "Oh damn! My SL wants me to go medic and I really wanted to be a sniper" players that begrudgingly take up the shock-paddles) was conducted I think you may find that any scoped rifle would not be top of our wish-list.

Granted, it'd allow medics to pick off targets at distance far more easily than now but, again, medics are support class and their rifles are more for CQB than anything else.

hoc_xfirestormx wrote:this is almost completely off topic.

Firestorm, in what way am I off topic? The topic is "un-nerf medic". My original post was that the medic is not nerfed q.v.: he's fine the way he is, I stated my case to back this up.

My argument was erroneously challenged ("medic can't heal him/herself") to which I counter-challenged that, errrrm, they can and presented my case to answer pasfreak and explain my opinion on iron sights on medic rifles.

How can you contend that the medic is not a support class? Is reviving, healing and patching your squad not a supportive role? Is ensuring that the SL is fit and able to be spawned on (in the current incarnation of PR at least) not supportive of your squad. You're having a laugh

I'll risk a warning by saying get your facts right.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-09-23 15:35

.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever wrote:I have witnessed no nerfing of the medic. It's fine the way it is at the moment, well balanced between mobility & self heal which counters lack of armour.

medics DO HAVE body armor, it's the stupid Spec Op, that's soft as a snail...

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-09-23 15:36

daranz wrote:If there is a lifesaver/combat medic kit to be added, then it better offer something to encourage people to use it, like a scope on the rifle.

And fight as a Rifleman instead of being a medic, since they got a 1337 4x scope on their rifles...