Accuracy of MEC Weapons vs. USMC Weapons

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2005-12-28 23:15

'[R-PUB wrote:fuzzhead']
Figisaacnewton:

I dont think youve played PRM much as the MEC.... before you post again, please go play 2 hours as the MEC, and then 5 minutes as the USA.

Youve done that? Ok good.

...you apparently dont know that I'm a beta tester... do you...? I'm really close to bitching you out at this point, but I'm not going to.

I've definetely played PRMM enough to notice that the AK101 is slightly less accurate than the m16 if you compare their 3 round burst modes. Despite what you say,in single shot, at long range the problem is not there.Sure the AK has more recoil, so you cant get exactly as many well aimed shots of per minute, but the bullets go where the gun is pointing. It's hardcoded as far as I know, there is no random cone of fire.

Of course, many things could cause problems you describe, mainly lag, or comp thats pushing the graphical limit at 13 fps.

With the exception of the m24 being superior to the SVD and QTRR or whatever because of its higher zoom, all the weapons in the game are pretty equally matched, and I see no huge problem.

'[R-PUB wrote:fuzzhead']Trying to assault the Square from the market is totally futile, the USA can sit up there and its like shooting fish in a barrel, and this is only 100 meter range!

Then stop assaulting a well fortified position! There is a reason you make your camps on the high ground... Tactics make 100 times more difference than guns. Play with better tactics, hide and attack in new spots, be unexpected, and your gun won't matter. Also, use single shot for gods sakes (if you arn't).

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-12-29 04:47

I belive requiem posted about not having the mod feature actual conflicts out of respect for those involved.

As for the accuracy, the fact that there are differences make it REALISTIC. There is not always a perfect counterpart for a weapon, is there? If you find yourself with a weapon of lesser accuracy than your opponents find a way around it. Your aren't doomed to die just because you're fighting with a poorer firearm. You find a way to beat your opponent in another way, get closer so accuracy isn't an issue, our manouver him, use smoke to cover your advance, use cover fire from your teammates.

Although this obviously won't ALWAYS work (which means youre opponent is damn good and you can't get rid of his skill) you have a better shot at that than trying to get all the weapons to have an exact counterpart because that just isn't the way things work in the real world.

beta · Post by **beta** » 2005-12-29 16:43

use smoke to cover your advance

A whole new topic in itself .....

If only this could be done .... the smoke is gone after a few seconds!

Too bad the BF2 engine doesn't like particle effects ...

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2005-12-29 17:12

beta wrote:A whole new topic in itself .....

If only this could be done .... the smoke is gone after a few seconds!

Too bad the BF2 engine doesn't like particle effects ...

not too hard to fix:
1) make the smoke last longer

hard to fix
2) rework all the smoke sprites and **** so there is less of them, but they work just as well. good example is cod2's smoke, the actual smoke from smoke grenades in that game doesn't lag tooo much, and the effect is like 10x bigger and lasts for 45 seconds.

Rg · Post by Rg » 2005-12-29 17:43

da.SPAWN wrote: conclusion:
more recoil means more firepower, this leads to more damage points for the AKs

That is incorrect because the MEC ak's (Assault and Medic class) take 1 more bullet to kill someone then the US's (Assault and Medic class). Every other class is equivelent in damage, I believe, except these two. So not only is there more recoil for the gun in those 2 classes, but there is also less damage.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2005-12-29 19:50

Maybe a certain MEC class could get an AK74, a few mags, and an RPG (to balance things out)

beta · Post by **beta** » 2005-12-29 20:13

not too hard to fix:
1) make the smoke last longer

I remember playing a mod for BF2 that did just that ... was quite slow and laggy even with only 4 people in a game. Can't imagine what it would be like with a 20 player game ...

da.SPAWN · Post by **da.SPAWN** » 2005-12-29 22:26

Rg wrote:
da.SPAWN wrote: conclusion:
more recoil means more firepower, this leads to more damage points for the AKs
That is incorrect because the MEC ak's (Assault and Medic class) take 1 more bullet to kill someone then the US's (Assault and Medic class). Every other class is equivelent in damage, I believe, except these two. So not only is there more recoil for the gun in those 2 classes, but there is also less damage.

i have written this unclear, what i mean is GIVE the AKs more damage points

beta · Post by **beta** » 2005-12-30 00:44

That is incorrect because the MEC ak's (Assault and Medic class) take 1 more bullet to kill someone then the US's (Assault and Medic class).

Thats interesting ....

Why would it be this way? AFAIK AK-101 and M16A2 both use 5.56mm bullets, the AK-101 has a muzzle velocity of 910m/s, M16A2 has a muzzle velocity of 950 m/s, so why the extra bullet?

This explains a few things ... namely why my three shot burst doesn't kill them and theirs kills me just fine

Post by **NikovK** » 2005-12-30 03:08

Are you kidding? That's FORTY METERS A SECOND! US bullets get there even faster than your bullets! He can shoot you like TEN OR TWENTY TIMES! BEFORE YOUR BULLETS CATCH UP TO HIM!

MEC needs laser cannons to balance this out. Satellite laser cannons.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-12-30 03:10

Give them the Star Wars program... or just make them into Stormtroopers.

Post by **NikovK** » 2005-12-30 04:09

WITH FLAMETHROWERS!

Nevermore · Post by **Nevermore** » 2005-12-30 05:56

And SHARKS, with FRIGGIN LASER BEAMS!!!!!!!!!!

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2005-12-30 06:11

Nevermore wrote:And SHARKS, with FRIGGIN LASER BEAMS!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, the BF2 engine can only handle ill-tempered seabass.

Nevermore · Post by **Nevermore** » 2005-12-30 08:20

'[R-DEV wrote:Eddie Baker']Sorry, the BF2 engine can only handle ill-tempered seabass.

BAH!!!, then ill have to settle for that then wont i? Shameful lack of high tech the BF2 engine, aint it?

asiLLasiTgets · Post by **asiLLasiTgets** » 2005-12-30 09:04

The AK 101 is chambered in 5.56 x 45 nato (.223). I own many guns including an Colt M4 Carbine ( picture of it to the left) and an AK101. My ak101 is just as accurate as my M4 carbine. Infact my AK-101 handles recoil Just as well as my M4 on semi-auto. On Full Auto the M4 has a higher cyclic rate by about 250 rpm, and is just a touch more controlable than my AK 101.The RPK needs to be fixed as far as accuracy. The U.S. weapons with the exception of the M24 are perfect.

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2005-12-30 09:06

Figisaacnewton:

Sorry for the harsh response it was right after a game and i was upset while posting, i should have waited to post.

As far as random cone of fire, are you sure?? i hope that its not random, because i am a fan of actual recoil and not random chance.

Lag, graphics, etc are not a problem as not just me but everyone im playing with experiences what i was describing.

""With the exception of the m24 being superior to the SVD and QTRR or whatever because of its higher zoom, all the weapons in the game are pretty equally matched, and I see no huge problem.""

I disagree.

""Then stop assaulting a well fortified position! There is a reason you make your camps on the high ground... Tactics make 100 times more difference than guns. Play with better tactics, hide and attack in new spots, be unexpected, and your gun won't matter. Also, use single shot for gods sakes (if you arn't).""

The point is not poor tactics, the point is with the exact same tactics, I can win that situation Easily with the USA weapons. Now, Im all for diversifying the teams and mixing things up, but overall I would love to see realistic weapon modeling, and to me it just feels like the AK101 is too disadvantaged compared to real life. Its inaccuracy at range, slow rate of fire, less damage potential makes it very annoying to play with.

I guess my opinion on this subject isnt very popular with the veterans here, so I will end it at this. My opinion is that the MEC weapons need tweaking to give them a level playing field. If its kept the same its not a big deal, but I feel its important for growth of the mod, to have 2 even sides.

and again I apologize Figisaacnewton, I didnt mean to treat you like a noob I was frustrated and venting, it was my mistake, it wont happen again.

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2005-12-30 09:58

I took a look at the files again and noticed something quite shooking. While the AK101 has been updated in the hotfix for more realistic movement accuracy (ie the more you move, the less accurate it is) the M16 *HAS NOT*.

That means that the AK101 can be as much as 10 *TIMES* as innaccurate as the M16!!!

The AK101 has deviation when you move your screen: The M16 doesnt.
(this in particular will cause a VAST difference in actual combat).

The AK101 has a max miscdev (action like prone, jump) of 10: The M16 has 1.5.

Edit: And the AK101 has a return rate of speed accuracy (ie when you run and the crosshair return after stop you stop) of 0.01: The M16 has 0.1.

The difference is more like 20 times when considering it all.