Spotting limited

nicoX · Post by **nicoX** » 2007-09-25 23:03

Before the discussion over at Should Project Reality remove the minimap? ends, probably never. How about making the spotting function limited? With the 0.7 patch were SF is a limited kit lets add spotting only for SF's and SL's. Or add something limited requested tool for spotting. It's pretty lame for a RL inspired game having infantry, crewmen, pilots (everybody) being able to spot enemies. Will there be advantages/disadvantages with the this function? Discuss.

Teek · Post by **Teek** » 2007-09-25 23:09

How is it 'lame' for a gunt to see a Hostile and say so? that is spoting. It is simply carried up the Com-Nets. Grunt --> SL --> HQ --> Everyone else.

or do you mean Laser Designation?

Post by **dbzao** » 2007-09-25 23:15

I think he means markings on the map.

Harrod200 · Post by **Harrod200** » 2007-09-25 23:15

"TARGET FRONT, 200 METERS, RED BUILDING"

Every squaddie is trained to give Fire Control Orders and to point out the location of the enemy as clearly and concisely as possible. Since you can't exactly have everything in the game having an associated voice command the minimap is the best we have.

I would personally prefer the target location to be shown on the 3d map like mines, flags and SL orders, so an infantry icon and range shown on screen at the target's last known location.

pasfreak · Post by **pasfreak** » 2007-09-25 23:16

maybe only spotting with binocs, and mayybe the scope?

nicoX · Post by **nicoX** » 2007-09-25 23:17

I mean use the voip and coordinates instead. And no, no laser designation. No moving vehicles or men, mark it instead on the map and let it show up.

Harrod200 · Post by **Harrod200** » 2007-09-25 23:20

Coordinates mean nothing while playing unless you're in the map screen, and while most do, not everyone has VOIP or speaks the same language.

IMO a 3d map, fixed (not moving with the enemy) icon at their last position would work best. Since that's likely not gonna happen, I think it should stay as is.

nicoX · Post by **nicoX** » 2007-09-25 23:49

When you use the spotting function you do something automatic. You spot someone far away either it is a friendly (not spotted) or enemy. It shouldn't be that easy. First of all you need to use your binoculars to see him. Then the next step how are you gonna reveal his position (for this game). I find the spotting function basic, something from vanilla and a need to be changed. How there are many ideas of, and I'm sure all are better than what we use today.

Post by **dbzao** » 2007-09-26 00:27

I agree, the spotting exploit is pretty annoying.

Teek · Post by **Teek** » 2007-09-26 00:36

nicoliani wrote:When you use the spotting function you do something automatic. You spot someone far away either it is a friendly (not spotted) or enemy. It shouldn't be that easy.

why not, its just a easy IRL. you see some movement, you point, and state range. if its frendly then you communicate with the SL or HQ.

First of all you need to use your binoculars to see him.

your saying you need binocs to see moment and tell your squad?

Then the next step how are you gonna reveal his position (for this game). I find the spotting function basic, something from vanilla and a need to be changed. How there are many ideas of, and I'm sure all are better than what we use today.

I dont think the BF2 engine will support any other method without being buggy.

Post by **MAINERROR** » 2007-09-26 11:02

And how about implementing a disable HUD function? I know that it is possble but i think its only serversided. My opinion is that the user should be able to decide if he wanna see the HUD or not.

I know that i can set the opacity to zero but the minimap doenst disappear completely. And if i set the draw. HUD to null then all HUD things disappear also the aimpoint from the M4 and such things. Is there any way to fix that or implement that or is it hardcoded?

Reddish Red · Post by **Reddish Red** » 2007-09-26 11:38

Ah.

Heres a Idea:

You can spot APCS,Jeeps,Tanks etc without binocs

for Infantry you need to spot with binocs/scope, if there a Certain distance away

Post by **Deadfast** » 2007-09-26 11:46

What about just keeping the dots that shows on a map after spotting static (e.g. they will stay on a position, where the enemy was spotted, won't move with him) ?
Please, let it not be hardcoded...

AnRK · Post by **AnRK** » 2007-09-26 12:49

It'd be nice if there were some way to remove the auto spotted thing (just pressing the middle section), it would get rid alot of the spamming that people to to see if there are enemies in an area. Only problem is the time it would take, if you could have it so left clicking was an automatic infantry spot and right clicking brought up the existing menu for armour and such it'd be ok though. It'd sort out the tracking effect you get too when you auto spot people.

On the other hand it would mess up spotting aircraft, unless you could have the auto spotted thing apply to air and nothing else. Not sure if these ideas are any good, but something needs to be done about it.

nicoX · Post by **nicoX** » 2007-09-26 14:47

Teek wrote:why not, its just a easy IRL. you see some movement, you point, and state range. If its friendly then you communicate with the SL or HQ.

This takes time. So limit the spotting only for your squad and the friendlies that are within 20m from you at the time you spot. Within your squad you got a fast communication and friendlies within your area can hear you. For the rest it takes longer time for you to HQ and the HQ to tell the rest of the platoon.

Leo · Post by **Leo** » 2007-09-26 21:13

MAINERROR wrote:And how about implementing a disable HUD function? I know that it is possble but i think its only serversided. My opinion is that the user should be able to decide if he wanna see the HUD or not.

I know that i can set the opacity to zero but the minimap doenst disappear completely. And if i set the draw. HUD to null then all HUD things disappear also the aimpoint from the M4 and such things. Is there any way to fix that or implement that or is it hardcoded?

nvm, didn't see that last part.

Sgt_Canadian_Floss · Post by **Sgt_Canadian_Floss** » 2007-09-26 21:32

If someone spots an ennemy, just make that ennemy visible only to the people besides the one that spotted it
I doubt every soldier walks around screaming into a microphone to tell every single person on the map that he spotted an ennemy on top of a hill

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2007-09-26 21:58

nicoliani wrote:When you use the spotting function you do something automatic. You spot someone far away either it is a friendly (not spotted) or enemy. It shouldn't be that easy. First of all you need to use your binoculars to see him. Then the next step how are you gonna reveal his position (for this game). I find the spotting function basic, something from vanilla and a need to be changed. How there are many ideas of, and I'm sure all are better than what we use today.

I love this idea because the spotting feature is used by other and my self in particular to search areas and ID enemies with out actually gaining a clear visual first.

In real life, soldiers must gain a visual before declaring they have spotted an enemy. In PR, one can point in any direction, press a button too see if an enemy is on that location. Although it must been with in line of sight, this still provides a huge area to which can be searched.

When i am close to my squad members and i REALISTICALLY gain a visual ID on an enemy, i use VOIP to communicate this to my squad members and sometimes spotting as well.
Spotting the enemy just provides a precise location - provides extra info. But crucially this extra information is not absolutely necessary when an enemy location is described using VOIP.
E.g. "1 enemy INF, North West, outbound, behind the wall" - takes 3 secs and is exactly the information you need and really NO MORE!

It does not take skill to press a button, when pointing in the area closely around them!
But it does takes skill to quickly and effectively described the location of an enemy to your squad members.

In PR good overall communication, especially VOIP, is a prerequisite to success and all areas of the game must encourage players to develop these communications skills. But EVEN WHEN PLAYERS TO GAIN A VISUAL ID the spot feature makes it less necessary to be able to communicate effectively over VOIP.

Therefore in the interests of encouraging players to develop their skills at communication effectively over VOIP i strongly support the removal of the ability to spot by most classes.

However due to the games lack of inter-squad co-ordination i believe a number of exceptions must be made, as nicoliani suggested.

These being persons who's job it is to provided reconnaissance becuase it is there job to ID enemies and communicate them, but VOIP cannot as easily used to communicate this to other squads. The spot feature provides a simple but effectively method of communicating enemy locations. Such examples could include:
Specs opp class
Sniper class
Recon vehicles
and mabey even the marksman.

Winterfrost · Post by **Winterfrost** » 2007-09-27 09:12

spotting is fine as it is

AnRK · Post by **AnRK** » 2007-09-27 15:57

Winterfrost wrote:spotting is fine as it is

Boring!