Limiting Limited Kits

hx.bjoffe · Post by **hx.bjoffe** » 2007-10-03 13:44

I have a suggestion I need to get off my chest. Well, new to me atleast.

"Remove all the Specialist-kits (Zniper and HAT [possibly AA Rifleman]) from the Request-meny, and place them as Pick-ups at Main."

Specialist-kits are for specialist-squads, and i think its fair they'll have to start off Main and be a little consequent.
Not just pull one off the APC/rally/crate. Maybe make them requestable from Bunkers/Firebases, rather not, but at least limit the Supplyzone for them.

One of the desired side-effects of this Plan will of course be to remove the HAT from in-appopriate maps. Eg. British HATS on 7 Gates or Mestia. Or any on Street or Phoenix. And so forth.

I you want to clear a bunker or kill of a "softskinned vehicle", L-ATs will do on all maps without Tanks. If you want to shoot single infantery from a safe distance you're just utterly lame. /rant

Well, thats it for now. So long, folks.

Please comment. And flame away if its a re-suggestian.

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-10-03 14:40

I agree - I suggested something similar before

Post by **OkitaMakoto** » 2007-10-03 15:16

One thing I immediately think is that now the people who dont really need, or even WANT, the kit will run by and think "MMMmmm SAW...." and grab it and run off with it.

Who gonna just pass up a sniper or HAT kit? Not many.

While I think its a good idea, I think it would also lead to the kit you need always being gone more so than it is now.

Now, you have to actually request it, so it tends to be that people request them as they need them, not just cuz they saw them when they spawned...

But, I think I am interested to see more discussion on this because with some tweaks/modification, it could really work out for the better... just, right now, it kinda worries me

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-10-03 15:20

maybe system like FH2 show , you have all the limited kits in the spawn menu , but they are still limited , let me find the screenshot ....

EDIT:

hx.bjoffe · Post by **hx.bjoffe** » 2007-10-03 15:30

[R-MOD]OkitaMakoto wrote: Who gonna just pass up a sniper or HAT kit? Not many.

Ever taken a look in Militia-main on Mestia? Especially pre-patch, when HAT was there...
First off, Initial start at main its a race as much as requesting them.
Second, after that "no-one" spawns there. So it'll be there if you need it, if not anyone else out there "deserves" it. Or opposite, lost it to other team.

Reddish Red · Post by **Reddish Red** » 2007-10-03 16:18

HAT and Snipers should be removed from Street, Theres no need.. since street is big enough for a Marksman anyway

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-10-03 16:24

Engineer wrote:77SiCaRiO77, so you could spawn on your leet RP with your elite HAT to take out that haxor tank?

I'd rather stick the current system, where you actually need to DO something to get that tank down...

and whats wrong with having AT suport in your squad??

do something? like what ? spawn at a main or bunker far away from your squad to request a HAT , then walk all the way just to find your squad dead and no tank?pfff yeah , "realistic"...

Threedroogs · Post by **Threedroogs** » 2007-10-03 17:19

i am pretty sure APC spawning will be removed in .7, so that will basically fix this issue. the problem comes from people spawning on an APC and being able to immediately grab the H-AT. once they cant spawn there, it wont be nearly as easy to just grab an H-AT and start destroying enemy vehicles.

i dont want them as pick up kits at the main cause it'll waste tons of time during the game. is someone just supposed to hang out there to see if it has respawned or not? add in the fact that jackass enemy players will be making beelines for our pickup kits and there could be lots of problems.

youm0nt · Post by **youm0nt** » 2007-10-03 19:02

Threedroogs wrote:i am pretty sure APC spawning will be removed in .7, so that will basically fix this issue.

Isn't it removed in the patch? Don't have BF2 installed anymore, so...

hx.bjoffe · Post by **hx.bjoffe** » 2007-10-03 19:46

Threedroogs wrote:i am pretty sure APC spawning will be removed in .7, so that will basically fix this issue. the problem comes from people spawning on an APC and being able to immediately grab the H-AT. once they cant spawn there, it wont be nearly as easy to just grab an H-AT and start destroying enemy vehicles.

Well, i disagree. Its only a small part of the problem. Its just one of many other places you can grab the HAT. The Crates are easier available than APCs with or without spawncapabilities, at most times.
It will neither have the possibility off getting the HATs away from infantery-maps.
And whatabout grabbing the Sniper straight off the Rallypoint? I find that pretty nasty. It should be removed from Rallys as the HAT was.

Threedroogs · Post by **Threedroogs** » 2007-10-03 19:57

hx.bjoffe wrote:Well, i disagree. Its only a small part of the problem. Its just one of many other places you can grab the HAT. The Crates are easier available than APCs with or without spawncapabilities, at most times.
It will neither have the possibility off getting the HATs away from infantery-maps.
And whatabout grabbing the Sniper straight off the Rallypoint? I find that pretty nasty. It should be removed from Rallys as the HAT was.

-the crates require coordination, teamwork, and time to use (as well as a commander), so i have no problem with them at all.

-i have no problem with people using H-AT on infantry maps. i wouldnt do it, but i'm not going to cry about someone else doing it either. an H-AT sniper has never decided the fate of a game. i'd much rather my squad member carry a rifle than an H-AT on infantry maps. an H-AT on infantry maps is normally an easy target.

-as far as the sniper rifle goes...you might have a point. i never ever ever use sniper rifles, so i cant really comment too much on that issue. i'd rather people couldnt get the sniper kit off of RPs cause i hate seeing members of my squad grab that kit.

<edit> and no, they have not removed APC spawning yet.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-10-03 20:01

I think, maybe the kit limiting system could be re-worked, so mappers could choose via some .con sort of file, what kits are available on the map.

I think, it sounds possible..although will probably require a lot of work.

/need Dev input

hx.bjoffe · Post by **hx.bjoffe** » 2007-10-03 21:18

Adressing Pygar

- Well. Most of the time i play, there is a commander. And all it takes is one SL with binocs to spread Crates all over the map in practically no time, strategically placed or ill- so.
When i go SL w/ CO i allways have a supplycrate near where me and my squad set up shop. And one further behind, you know? Theres allways one accessible.

- Neither do really I anymore. I hate running into that rocket from Sniper-position, but its not such an issue as before. But its role isnt needed on inf-maps, so why have it there. Thats spammy.
I do find it too easily aquirable in general.

- Cool. We agree some.

Waaah_Wah · Post by **Waaah_Wah** » 2007-10-03 22:16

I cant even remember when i've seen someone AT sniping in PR...

AnRK · Post by **AnRK** » 2007-10-04 12:29

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:maybe system like FH2 show , you have all the limited kits in the spawn menu , but they are still limited , let me find the screenshot ....

EDIT:

Yeah I suggested using the system too, however not having it as a DoD style whoever gets the kit first gets it kinda, thing but having it as a system relative to your squad not the team. So you could start out with SAWs and very basic limited kits and spawn in straight off without the ballache of requesting it AGAIN. Which probably what 77 meant too I guess cos PR is a very squad based game obviously.

Anyway the devs said they might look into something like this.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-10-04 14:02

well, the NCO kit is limited to one per squad (coz is used only by the SL) so maybe a squad limit can be done using that system .

anyway , im not sugesting to use that system for everything , only for certains kits , like civilian or crewman/pilot , so they can spawn with a diferent skin ,etc .

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2007-10-05 02:27

I don't really see a major problem with the HAT. For starters there's only 2 available per team, and only 4 can be on a map at any given time. Secondly, even though we all hear horror stories of HAT sniping, I personally don't see a lot of it. In fact you don't even see HAT being used until needed in most cases.

Not to mention you're presented a problem with enemy players potentially sneaking in your main base, stealing your HAT kits and using them against your team. Same with the sniper kits as well. If anything I'd simply limit the places you can request kits from. I'd make it so that snipers can only be requested at main bases, nowhere else. HAT seems fine as is though, the only place I think could do without the HAT request are the APCs.

On another note, regarding the limited kits, the only one I think should be in the spawn menu is the Officer Kit (Or kits if we ever consider squad specialization).

Alphab3t4 · Post by **Alphab3t4** » 2007-10-05 06:56

Officer spawnable or not really doesnt matter once you spawn you can get it anyway.

I agree with the sniper being removed from the RP, but i think ONLY Main base is abit extreme