Accuracy of MEC Weapons vs. USMC Weapons

[xsdgh]

This might be something for the Suggestions forum rather than here but here it is anyways ...

I recently saw a short video clip of a US soldier getting hit from an AK round in his body armour, he prompty was knocked to the ground, BUT he got back up and immeadiately ran for cover behind a nearby HWMV. This got me thinking ... what is PRMM could try to simulate a more realistic approach to being shot? Since some of the "classes" in BF2 have body armour, how about a system that will simulate this "sudden impact" and knocks you into the prone position, maybe even in the prone position and you will be "stunned" for a certain amount of time so as to simulate taking a non-fatal body armour hit.

This will make firefights seem more realistic IMO, because even though you have this protective body armour that will stop the bullet, it should not be able to stop the bullet's effect of imparted a LOT of force onto it's target. This would also, IMO, alleviate some of the problems in weapon balancing, becuase again drawing from my experience yesterday, I would often sight an enemy, get the first shot, see the blood/greyish-body-armour-filling-stuff fly off the guy, but then they promptly turn and fire one burst and kill me. In reality the person who gets the first hit in a firefight should have a descisve (sp?) advantage over the one that has been ambushed.

Now I have a slight understanding of how complicated and time-consuming trying to add this feature could be, but IMHO it would be worth it.

Could you send (pm) me the link for that video?

[beta]

Could you send (pm) me the link for that video?

Unfortunately I got this video at a LAN so I have no idea where it came from and I don't have a website to upload it to. If you know of a free site that I can upload it to (file size of 2MB), I'll do it for sure.

[da.SPAWN]

played last night on GH, it was so what from **** with the MEC guns, sry but this has to be fixed ASAP or i will not be the only one which is no longer playing MEC team

[beta]

I took a look at the files again and noticed something quite shooking. While the AK101 has been updated in the hotfix for more realistic movement accuracy (ie the more you move, the less accurate it is) the M16 *HAS NOT*.

That means that the AK101 can be as much as 10 *TIMES* as innaccurate as the M16!!!

The AK101 has deviation when you move your screen: The M16 doesnt.
(this in particular will cause a VAST difference in actual combat).

The AK101 has a max miscdev (action like prone, jump) of 10: The M16 has 1.5.

Edit: And the AK101 has a return rate of speed accuracy (ie when you run and the crosshair return after stop you stop) of 0.01: The M16 has 0.1.

The difference is more like 20 times when considering it all.

Wow, I knew there was a problem, but a 20 times difference of a problem?

The good news is that this bug has been found and hopefully soon to be squashed.

[Delta24US7]

Well, arent terrorist supposed to be more gurriella warfare types? Then agan, the MEC is actually a well organized faction so I think raising the accuracy level just a tad wouldnt hurt the realism too much, but then again, what would I know? Im a lowly newbie

[Lifetaker]

I really believe that this should be tops on the next fix. I know and accept that sometimes getting crushed is a direct result of good teamwork on the part of your opponent, but when I'm playing MEC or Chinese (which somehow is almost always the team I get stuck on!) I'm really tired of losing firefights solely based on the inaccuracy of the garbage weapon I am forced to use. I hate to be Special Forces on this game as it doesn't really contribute much to my squad in the way of resources, but for both Chinese and MEC, this kit has the most effective weapon. There is NO reason that an AK74U should be more accurate at distance than an RPK or AK101 (which are both devestating weapons IRL). I know we're shooting for realism here, but let's face it, sometimes you don't have a great squad and sometimes there aren't so many people playing that you can impliment solid teamwork. There has to be some compensation for balance sake.

I am fully aware, as I have stated in previous threads that western militaries just plain out-gun the east in the real world. However, as many people have also said, this isn't the real world. It is still a video game.

I also know that priority one is getting the Brits into the game, but again we will be faced with the same issue, as I'm assuming they won't be fighting against US forces. Then, in this case the British will just outgun the opposition, as the Americans already do.

I'm not one to complain, but I really think this is an issue, as we are seven pages into this thread.

[DEDMON5811]

I Agree!!! and get the sniper rifle back in the game!!! How about another Hotfix to get it going now???

[Lifetaker]

For real. Why all the complaints about the sniper rifle in the first place? People just don't like to get smoked. It's that simple. Especially by the same guy over and over! But hey, there's only so many places a sniper can hide on a map, so if you get popped over and over again by the same sniper, well.... too bad for you. I hate to think that the SAW may be the next topic for complaint, but I think it's great. No point in dumbing down weapons because people don't like getting shot with them.

[da.SPAWN]

i gave a shit if in real life MECs are a bounch of terroris (and potential victims), this is a game where MEC, CHINESE, US and BRITS are team a b c d NOT LESS NOT MORE.
I as player EXPECT that the game is balanced! i play for fun, if i am in a team that is outgunned per default playing for me is no fun (especially if you as MEC player get scoffed by the other team but that´s another story). no fun leads to not playing. simple rules.

in this thread are a lot of options from other players what could be done (or not) to balance the teams more.
i think personaly that specops are fine (at least MEC / US, have not played CHINESE much). kits (or weapons) for medic, assault and support needs to be adjusted. for exsample: the mag size for MEC mg is 75 but the change time for that mag is nearly the same as for the SAW. such a small mag should be exchanged much quicker than a 200 rounds belt mag for SAW. US support has 2x200 mags, MEC has 2x75. please take also in account that the SAW has a weight from 10kg (200 mag) the RPK has 5kg. the stamina & speed for both classes are the same !!!
to the engeneer class i can not say much, i have played this class only once. in it´s current state this class is not attractive for me to play.but so far i have shooten with slugs onece on a shooting range, you can easily cut of a mans arm or leg if you hit right. this type of ammunition needs much more damage points than it has now. on short distance i should be an instant kill. too keep the balance if you raise the damage points for this ammo type make it unavaliable for auto shotguns. slugs only for pumpguns

please don´t underestimate this thread.

[dawdler]

Lifetaker']I really believe that this should be tops on the next fix.

Of course it should be. Its not an issue: Its a bug with the accuracy stats.

Otherwise, the only difference is .15 vs .25 in accuracy (0.05 vs 0.09 when prone and zoomed, which is the eqvivalent of a vanilla M24 vs Dragunov)

Sidenote: I also consider the M4/AK74/QBZ bugged. Unless I'm way off, its impossible for them to achieve higher accuracy than a full length assault rifle. They are CQB variants of rifles. The M4 doesnt have the same accuracy as the M16 realisticly, does it? Otherwise I would fail to see the point why we even use the M16, lol!!!

[da.SPAWN]

one, i find important, feature i forgot:
autochange the teams after each round. means MEC become US and vice versa.
same changes for all players, if you have a good team the will win on both sides
if one side (MEC US CHINA BRITS) is overpowered you will pretty quick find out wich it is

[Lifetaker]

Unless I'm way off, its impossible for them to achieve higher accuracy than a full length assault rifle. They are CQB variants of rifles. The M4 doesnt have the same accuracy as the M16 realisticly, does it? Otherwise I would fail to see the point why we even use the M16, lol!!!

Just to respond to this on a technical note real quick. In reality, the optimum length for a weapon firing 5.56mm ammunition is 16 to 16.5 inches. Otherwise a phenomenon known as overspin can occur reducing the velocity, distance and accuracy of the round. A standard M16 usually has a 20 to 20.5 inch barrel. The M4 for example, generally comes equipped with an 11.5 or 16 incher. So for this weapon, it is possible for it to be just as, if not more accurate than the standard M16a2. I believe the AK74U fires a 5.45mm round and if I'm not mistaken, comes equipped with a 10.5 or 11 inch barrel. I can't remember which. This weapon in particular is a CQB gun. The Chinese Type 95 fires a 5.8mm round and because of its "bullpup" configuration, has a longer barrel than it appears. IRL I have never shot one of thes, but according to what I've read, it's not so good from a distance. Hope this answered your question in an overly complicated, somewhat convoluted way!

And the only reason on the game to use the M16 is because of the resources those kits carry. Medic kit/ M203GL Better for your squad.

[Lifetaker]

one, i find important, feature i forgot:
autochange the teams after each round. means MEC become US and vice versa.
same changes for all players, if you have a good team the will win on both sides
if one side (MEC US CHINA BRITS) is overpowered you will pretty quick find out wich it is

As much as I would agree that this evens the playing field for everyone, my experience on servers that run this config. is that it's really annoying. You have to recreate and join squads every round. Not fun.

Your previous post on this thread makes some very good points. There are imbalances besides the accuracy. I'm sure after viewing this thread, the DEVs will surely take these observations into account.

[da.SPAWN]

this here is nice you can compare weapons online
http://www.militaryfactory.com/guns_comparison.asp

[dawdler]

Lifetaker']Just to respond to this on a technical note real quick. In reality, the optimum length for a weapon firing 5.56mm ammunition is 16 to 16.5 inches. Otherwise a phenomenon known as overspin can occur reducing the velocity, distance and accuracy of the round. A standard M16 usually has a 20 to 20.5 inch barrel. The M4 for example, generally comes equipped with an 11.5 or 16 incher. So for this weapon, it is possible for it to be just as, if not more accurate than the standard M16a2. I believe the AK74U fires a 5.45mm round and if I'm not mistaken, comes equipped with a 10.5 or 11 inch barrel. I can't remember which. This weapon in particular is a CQB gun. The Chinese Type 95 fires a 5.8mm round and because of its "bullpup" configuration, has a longer barrel than it appears. IRL I have never shot one of thes, but according to what I've read, it's not so good from a distance. Hope this answered your question in an overly complicated, somewhat convoluted way!

And the only reason on the game to use the M16 is because of the resources those kits carry. Medic kit/ M203GL Better for your squad.

How do we know the M4 in the game is 11.5 or 16?

world.guns.ru state (yeah I'm an internet riflenoob!!!):

From the first sight, the M4A1 SOPMOD is an ideal Special Operations weapon - handy, flexible, with good firepower. But the latest experience in the Afghanistan showed that the M4 has some flaws. First of all, the shorter barrel commands the lower bullet velocities, and this significantly decreased the effective range of the 5.56mm bullet. Second, the M4 barrel and the forend rapidly overheats. Third, the shortened barrel resulted in the shortened gas system, which works under greater pressures, than in M16A2 rifle. This increases the rate of fire and produces more stress on the moving parts, decreasing the reliability.

Doesnt sound good for long range like the M16.

[Trufret]

From the pic of the M4 in game I would say it's the 16" barrel as the 11.5 would be much shorter with the flash hidder very close to the front sight. So the carbine in game sould have it's specs set as the 16" barrel if they aren't already

[Lifetaker]

this here is nice you can compare weapons online
http://www.militaryfactory.com/guns_comparison.asp

Cool site. Never seen that one before.

According to above site colt M4 has an effective range of 600 meters. Way farther than you'll be shooting in this game.

[Armand61685]

I think maps cover more than 600 digimeters. And it's easy to find targets across long ranges in this game, and fire and kill them.

[Lifetaker]

Armand61685']I think maps cover more than 600 digimeters. And it's easy to find targets across long ranges in this game, and fire and kill them.

I guess I'm not sure what a digimeter is. Is that equivalent to a real meter in the digital realm? Also, even if it is, I can't think of one map that you can see or shoot at an opponent from one end to the other.

[Trufret]

if you on a crane or vary high rooftop I can see having an opertunity at a few 600m+ shots