Slightly off topic - Polish Military History - Lest we forget..

[Wasteland]

There is nothing fair about communist Russia(Soviet) vs Poland during 1939-45.. So don't even try to justify Soviet actions against poles.

First they invade the east half of Poland 1939 (the Nazi-Soviet Non-Agression pact) WTF?
Then suddenly when the "shit hits the fan" they come as liberators? Now what was that old saying?“the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”


Ohh.. but the russians did so much more then just watch:
Katyn Forest massacre "the NKVD executed almost half the Polish officer corps" 15,000 to 21,768 murdered.(all POW's from the war!!) And that's just the officers at Katyn, not to mention all who died at russian gulags.



Would it even matter if Warsaw got miracously liberated by poles? It was still 1944, the war was far from over. It's not that hard to round up all survivors and shoot the "free thinkers". Hey it didn't stop them at Katyn. But why waste precious amunition when you can make the emeny do it for you.. And we don't even need to get our hands dirty.

Trying to negotiate with Stalin is just asking for a bullet in the neck.

My advice: If you ever visit Poland, don't repeat what you just wrote. You might end up with a broken nose or worse.

I'm talking about one God damn event. Not the f*cking history of Poland-Soviet relations as a whole. The fact is that at this point of the war all of the allies (including the Soviets) were starting to thing about what would happen *after* the peace. The Soviets were still thinking about the West-backed White Armies they'd had to fight in the 20's, and how to create a buffer between them and Western Europe. . Soviet strategists decided that it was crucial that they be the ones to take Warsaw. They told the Warsaw resistance represesentatives not to rise up, and that they would not be supported. The resistance decided to take their chances, and fought bravely to retake Warsaw for themselves and help Poland's eventual position at the negotiating tables.

I did not say that Soviet-Poland relations were fair. I said "to be fair" because it's not fair to leave out a pertinent part of the involved history. You may still be pissed because I called you out when you said that when my friend's wife and her friend were beaten up by a rapist, they "had it coming". But that doesn't mean you can twist my words or put words in my mouth.

DEVs/MODs, please don't close this thread for this recent turn. This post is not a flame, it's merely intended to correct an incorrect assessment.

[Killer-Ape]

"The urgency for this decision increased as it became clear that after any successful Polish-Soviet co-operation in the liberation of various towns (for example, in the Wilno Uprising), the Soviet NKVD units who followed behind would either shoot or arrest most Polish officers and those Polish soldiers who could not or would not join the Soviet controlled forces." - From Wikipedia

Nothing was fair about the "God damn event" The soviet-russians where just as bad as the Nazi-germans, no liberation, just one oppressor for another. Waiting for the red army to liberate warsaw would change nothing: submission or death.. sometimes just death.

They told the Warsaw resistance represesentatives not to rise up, and that they would not be supported.

My sources tell a different story. Got any links/facts to support your argument?

"Liberate the City: Most of the underground believed that a Polish London-based government-in-exile had to be established in Warsaw before the newly created Russian-sponsored Committee of National Liberation would take charge. Military developments on the Eastern and Western fronts appeared to have created a singular opportunity to wrest control of Warsaw from the collapsing Germans shortly before the entry of the victorious Red Army. At the same time, the Soviet-controlled radio Kosciuszko issued appeals to Warsaw inhabitants to raise up against Germans." - From WarsawUprising.com LINK

"As the Soviet forces approached Warsaw in June and July 1944, Soviet radio stations demanded a full national uprising in Warsaw to cut the communication lines of German units still on the right bank of the Vistula; just two days prior to the uprising, Soviet-controlled radio Kosciuszko had called for the Polish people to rise in arms." - From Wikipedia.. LINK
Telling the rebels to fight sounds more logical. Give them false hope and let them fight the enemy for you. Then when all polish resistance dies out you only got one slightly weakened enemy to worry about instead of two. Ruthless but effective..

[sroczka]

68 Years ago began Soviet invasion of Poland.

More about it in wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_inv ... %281939%29

[Warmagi]

Its good to see that some of you take interest in polish history. Cause all the time you can see it TV, not polish TV, that polish contribution to the WWII is misplaced or not apreciated. For example recently in Television Russia or something like that, Russian channel in english there was a document abaut Katyn, they were showing pictures of Katyn dead polish officers and saying that those are sovier ppl killed by polish soldiers. Or enigma code, it was polish who broke it bur now its said it were British. Monte Casino Mountain, it were polish troops that took the fortifications on this mountain in Italy, no one could do it. And although our politicians sucks, and polish political scene is just pittiful, we were very good and brave fighters, and I bet we still can be and we are.

[Ragni<RangersPL>]

And although our politicians sucks, and polish political scene is just pittiful, we were very good and brave fighters, and I bet we still can be and we are.

Totally agree with you... especially those things about politicians

[H2HSnake]

Do you also believe that Falaise gap was entirely a Polish victory?

Nope.Total Falaise gap success was tnx to cooperation of allie units, I am not denying that. The crucial part, the last one, was won by Poles themselves.They were the last part in closing the gap, Germans could've escape through this last point that was the Mont Ormel.Poles were there alone and cutoff, they fought there without any help and with ammo low.They were attacked from the all sides by those who tried to escape and those who tired to help those who were escaping.They did it so it's their Victory at last decisive point of Falaise Gap. If they failed Germans would escape. So in this last importand point, it is in fact Polish Victory.It is written on monument founded by french civilians.
I suggest all that are interested to read this: http://www.suttonpublishing.co.uk/webap ... &langId=-1

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

I remember reading that some Free French units didn't follow orders and clogged some roads and that let thousands of Germans escape.

[Wyspa]

I agree about that It was success because of cooperation of allies... But we just want you to remember that Poland was fighting too... We manage to fight Germans longer than French before we lost ( and we didn't have equipment like them...I think that if Polish Soldiers would have equipment equal to French we could even win...). But it wasn't the end... we still fought under French (before they fall) and Brits our Navy Forces manage to get to England... our Polish Squadron 303 taken down more German planes than other RAF Squadrons... and "Armia Krajowa" was biggest underground Army in WWII... Just remember we were fighting :]

[Rageman_PL]

Polish Termopiles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_ ... e_of_Wizna
Battle of Zadwórze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Dr_Wycior]

Poland vs MEC, XVII century edition:

Battle of Vienna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[jozi02]

Warsaw Uprising 1944
World War 2: Warsaw Uprising 1944

Quoted from the site



Sounds similar to the Battle of Thermopylae, heroic and outnumbered... we need another 300 movie..

Actually Platige Image Studio (authors of The Cathedral and Fallen Art) is working on something like that:
Hardkor 44 ? Beyond the Iron Sky
Concept Art World ? Blog Archive ? Hardkor 44 Concept Art