Sniper rifles

DEDMON5811 · Post by **DEDMON5811** » 2006-01-02 06:51

Could we possibly get the sniper rifles put back in now maybe you guys could release another hotfix, just till .3 comes out. That way we would have a little defense against the saw sniper rifle.

I am not complaining I think the guns are great except for the sniper rifle. I have been able to crush the american team but would like to see sniper rifles being an actual useful tool.

Noetheinner · Post by **Noetheinner** » 2006-01-02 08:41

Dang you beat me to it DEDMON. I was just thinking that. The uber SAW is not so uber when you can snipe the guy a 1/2 a map away (or just our of his sight range).

Heydude235 · Post by **Heydude235** » 2006-01-02 12:26

the sniper isent to bad

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-01-02 12:30

Heydude235 wrote:the sniper isent to bad

yes it is, if you are a long range sniepr with the m24, and you are more than 50m away, you have no chance of hitting a small round head if you are a good sniper and put the crosshair right between his eyes. Every time it will miss. The only way i have got the m24 to hit is to aim it to the side and hope it dont go the other side, 30% of the time it works then but it really defeats the object of having a crosshair

ir0nside · Post by **ir0nside** » 2006-01-02 15:45

Well, here's my beef. When people complain about the SAW, a good amount of people say, "It's realistic - in real life, it maintains good accuracy, it's very lethal", and so forth. However, when you bring up un-nerfing sniper rifles or putting them at a realistic level, they immediately shoot you down.

"Everyone used them, they were too powerful, one hit kills at long range, blah blah". That is terribly shady and selfish.

Make the rechamber time much longer on the m24, for every single shot.

Make the recoil much worse so that you have to HIT with the M24 or risk rechambering a round very slowly and your target slipping away (or you being counter-sniped), and the SVD unable to fire off shots dead on round after round with only the tiniest aim adjustments each time.

These two changes will stop the abuse, I believe. They will be used less as in-the-heat-of-combat weapons, and more as support weapons.

Those are far more effective and creative ways of reducing sniper-rifle useage than making the m24 ridiculously inaccurate to the point of absurdity.

Eden · Post by **Eden** » 2006-01-02 17:10

The M24 is basicly useless, ive never seen such an unrealistic weapon. The only thing I would say it is good for it a replacement for the handgun because thats the only range you can use it in 5-10m.

the MEC rifle (forgot the name) isnt as bad as the M24 but its still makes some crazy shots.

Stargun · Post by **Stargun** » 2006-01-02 17:44

I think the best would be leaving the accuracy as good as the real guns, but make the aim harder like having about 1 sec of "blur" when start looking through the scope, and giving the FOV a certain "wave" depending on the firing position (standing - very big, crouching - medium, proning - small).
I like the breath cycles of Americas Army, but it would be MUCH better, if you could coordinate the breath cycle.
That could be done, like the "run" button - if you PRESS AND HOLD an "aim" button to hold your breath, your view though the scope will be much steadier than before, but a similar indicator to the "run indicator" starts to decrease rapidly. After the "steady aim" indicator reaches zero (like the sprinting ability) your breath will be normal, and your accuracy would be horrible for the next 2-3 secs. And offcourse this would need at least 10 secs to completely "reload" the aim indicator.

Another word on the bullet trajectory, like drop and crosswind. The best would be to able to "offset" the rifle scope to the actual conditions, like IRL. The sniper won't aim higher, but instead he tries to measure (by a range finder) or guess the correct distance to the target, AND ADJUST THE SCOPE of the sniper rifle accordingly. After that, the bullet SHOULD go somewhere near the center of the crosshair, calculating a small amount of bullet spread.
This setting of the scope can be time consuming (around 3-5 secs) to make using the sniper rifle against moving targets much harder.

Tom#13 · Post by **Tom#13** » 2006-01-02 17:47

mmm, wouldnt that be hard to put in.

JellyBelly · Post by **JellyBelly** » 2006-01-02 18:00

I personaly never saw a problem with the snipers. There were never masses of people playing as them and out of those that did, only a few were actually any good.

I play as a sniper religiously whenever I can (sort of ans aspiration of mine to become a sniper) so I find it annoying when people moan that snipers are over powerfull kill bots.

Next time you play in a Vanilla server, look at the score the best assualt class will get compared to the score the best sniper will get.
In my opinion, snipers were never bad and you know what they say,
'Don't try to fix something that isnt broken'.

JellyBelly · Post by **JellyBelly** » 2006-01-02 18:00

Double post.

Post by **Hitperson** » 2006-01-02 18:11

There is a bock button or you delect the text under "EDIT" and then save.

SOS off topic

back to the topic yes sniper rifles do need improving but the y will be replaced any way so don't hold your breath.

ir0nside · Post by **ir0nside** » 2006-01-04 00:52

These are simple tweaks, not new kits.

These changes need to happen sooner than later, much sooner than the entire kit revamps and whatnot (with additions of Designated Marksmen and whatnot) will arrive - saying "don't hold your breath" is counter productive.

People like to overcomplicate things with suggestions for breathing systems, scope adjustments and whatnot - these probably won't occur soon. What we need is to stick to the basics.

1) Longer reload time to force players to make each shot *count* on the m24.

2) More recoil for every bullet put downrange for EVERY gun (no more machine-gunning with the SVD, for instance, which is quite easy even at long range).

twisted · Post by **twisted** » 2006-01-04 01:54

ir0nside wrote:Well, here's my beef. When people complain about the SAW, a good amount of people say, "It's realistic - in real life, it maintains good accuracy, it's very lethal", and so forth. However, when you bring up un-nerfing sniper rifles or putting them at a realistic level, they immediately shoot you down.

"Everyone used them, they were too powerful, one hit kills at long range, blah blah". That is terribly shady and selfish.
....

Those are far more effective and creative ways of reducing sniper-rifle useage than making the m24 ridiculously inaccurate to the point of absurdity.

i hate playing against snipers. few things irritate me more than being shot across the map by someone i can't see. and i find playing sniper in normal bf2 not very much fun. but having said that i do AGREE with your post.

the beauty of this mod is every weapon SHOULD get represented as close to its Real Life inspiration as possible. and that mean no nerfs unless absolutely necessary like in the case when a weapons totally dominates and makes the game overall less 'realistic'.

snipers are a real and damn dangerous part of modern warfare., they need to be the same here. the solutions put forward here are all better alternatives in that they should be easier to understand and accomodate.

PS - you mentioned the m249. well, deploying the SAW when prone should limit how far you can turn when lying on the ground (maybe only 45%). is it possible to implement an auto bipod deploy - which should take a few seconds - when iron sights go up when you are prone? to turn futher than 45% you should have to stand (or crouch) first then get the right angle then go down. this would make the deployed SAW more support orientated. ditto for RPK.

DEDMON5811 · Post by **DEDMON5811** » 2006-01-04 01:57

Yeah the belly breakdance spinning sucks. I know a few guys here could probably pivot on there extruding Guts. But not most, and definately not with a LBV on or other gear.

ir0nside · Post by **ir0nside** » 2006-01-04 02:10

The only thing I worry about is that, generally, the harder something is to code and implement - be it due to complexity of coding or complexity of gameplay.. the farther down the "to do list" it will be pushed. This is pretty much a given.

I emplore everyone to keep suggestions as basic as possible. Analyze what the main issue with something is, and think of a *general* solution. What basic thing should be tweaked? What is the core of the problem?For example...

- SAW is too accurate and lethal at all ranges, with little or no drawbacks.
- Basic solution - implement a drawback to using it.

Tweak it a bit from there. Within the limitations of PRMM (emphasis on MINI-mod in that abbreviation), what could be done to counterbalance it?

Possiblilities:

- Overheating.
- Firing delay on position change.
- Inaccuracy after 3-5 round bursts.

Any of these alone or in concert are relatively simple, yet would be effective in limiting the SAW's ability to be used as the run-and-gun weapon it is becoming, without reducing it's intended lethality or useage. It would remain accurate and lethal when used properly, but users would be forced to use it more intelligently. Deploying properly in advance.. timing their shots better, and so forth.

With complex changes such as scope adjusting, bipod deployment, limited prone swivel ranges, barrel replacements from other classes, windage adjustments and so forth, you knock the development much farther down the "get it done" list.

Disclaimer: These are my opinions, and I'm not trying to force them on anyone.

visaya · Post by **visaya** » 2006-01-04 08:24

No improvements on the sniper rifle should be made
UNTIL Class limits are put in the mod.
Without it, we're just reverting back into the sniper mod of last version.

Snipers shouldn't even be in the game to function with the rest of the squads, there should be a limit of snipers in the game. 1 or 2 sounds enough, then the marksman class could be introduced to fully work with squads.

The sniper isn't so bad right now, you just have to stay scoped for about four seconds before you can really aim.

DEDMON5811 · Post by **DEDMON5811** » 2006-01-04 08:30

haha i have stayed scoped on an enemy testing it for 10 full secs and still no hit at all.

the sniper should be back in the mod the way it was. Class limits can come later.
At the moment Some call it

From a Galaxy far far away.....

SAW
WARS

Maj.b00bz · Post by **Maj.b00bz** » 2006-01-04 11:30

Why are snipers in a squad level game at all? Even at the 64 player limit the best you could call this game is Platoon level. In the USMC snipers are a Battalion level asset assigned to HQ Company STA platoon. I never saw a sniper attached to a squad for other than insertion purposes.

Remove them entirely and have a system like the FH mod where there's one kit per side on certain maps. Once the kit is out, it doesn't come back for a long time.

Post by **Hitperson** » 2006-01-04 15:38

DEDMON5811 wrote:haha i have stayed scoped on an enemy testing it for 10 full secs and still no hit at all.

the sniper should be back in the mod the way it was. Class limits can come later.
At the moment Some call it

From a Galaxy far far away.....

SAW
WARS

LOL that would be pretty funny

On the misterious planet of lead casing land

SiN|ScarFace · Post by **SiN|ScarFace** » 2006-01-04 16:30

Maj.b00bz wrote:Why are snipers in a squad level game at all? Even at the 64 player limit the best you could call this game is Platoon level. In the USMC snipers are a Battalion level asset assigned to HQ Company STA platoon. I never saw a sniper attached to a squad for other than insertion purposes.

Remove them entirely and have a system like the FH mod where there's one kit per side on certain maps. Once the kit is out, it doesn't come back for a long time.

while that would be nice, then vehicles other than jeeps wouldnt work either.

I prefer saw wars to sniper wars. Saw gunners are easy to get close enough for a head shot. A good sniper is more irritating, a good one will hide in a dirty spot and take you out before you ever see them. While I like this and its realistic too many people will be snipers, again and that is bad for the whole game.

Id vote for taking the sniper out and replacing it with some other kit or take it out for now.