SEAD: Live bait.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2007-10-13 20:42

This is just a temporary guide until aircraft are overhauled in 0.7.

Some basic prerequisites to killing enemy air defenses.

-No MiG-29s or Su-25s airborne.
-Preferably 2 F-16s so if you get jumped by a MiG you have a chance.
-Probably a joystick.
-A slightly intelligent wingman.
-Full ammo.

Ok so you're A-10 is as usual dead and you've just killed that last base-raping MiG-29. You keep getting painted over south village and a rather confused blackhawk just vanished from you radar. Theres a SAM who thinks he's real cool down there somewhere. Now before you go and try to do something stupid, think for a second:

-Where is the SAM site?
-What kind is it?
-How much/ what type of ammo do I have?
-What is the best ingress/egress?

If you're an intelligent pilot you'll probably try to stay near a friendly plane for several reasons.

1. Share countermeasure cover. You can have almost 30 seconds of cover provided you follow your flares downwards.
2. Can cover a wider angle of space.
3. Can concentrate your fire easily on a target.
4. Can make targeting a little harder for a gunner.

You don't have air to ground weapons, and assuming the enemy isn't completely inept, they will move their SAMs into position when your A-10 is dead. Missiles aren't done yet so right now you will need to learn to aim your gun and keep it on target.

There are a few ways to make life very easy for yourself when engaging an mobile SAM.

1. Toss and follow your countermeasures. Your flares are dispensed from below your fuselage. A quick roll will cause them to scatter, making it more difficult or impossible for them to "edge out" (put your plane on the edge of their scopes to keep the flares out of the picture) your signature. Another good idea is to attack from high angle and "follow" your counter measures in. He may never even get a lock on you.

2. Use terrain to full advantage. Have your wingman attack from the top while you hit it from behind in rapid succession. If he sees you coming use a "double tap" jinking shot to cause him to throw off his aim. DON'T POP FLARES WHEN GOING INTO TERRAIN! *ahem*. It will just waste them. After he loses lock you will hear the tone for about 1/2 to 1/4 of a second. Don't panic and delay your next attack by wasting flares.

3. Don't fly right towards it for more than about two seconds. This allows you to engage with guns while he is still leading you. First let out about 20-30 rounds into him. Then Turn 90 degrees away from him for a second or two. Then go into a hard turn into him and let out another 20-30 rounds.

*Remember: Theres a 1/3 second delay for arming the M61 so factor that in during an attack. Keep your gun time to about 2 seconds (about how long till he lines up properly).

4. Take advantage of your wingman and use him, or yourself as live bait for the SAM. Flare him from about 150m and wait for the flares to fall into his vision (you're much faster then the flares so you can give them a head start). You will most likely not have a tone right now. Just fly towards cover and as you egress, have your wingman come in with sidewinders and light up the SAM from behind. He will still have flares and will have an easy get away.

Tunguska-M1: Takes 250 rounds to put down, or 8 direct hits with a sidewinder. Missiles work best in a large salvo because you can adjust your aim, rather than making an educated guess with a single shot. You can land 60 rounds per pass max. So with a wingman you will need to each make 2-3 passes.

How you will die:

1. Flying directly at it. He won't have to lead you at all. So attack in a turn and use terrain to come from an unexpected angle.

2. Crashing into terrain. I can't help you with this other than saying to recage your eyes depth of field by looking away form your screen for a few seconds.

3. Not evading hard enough. When you are getting shot at break as hard as possible. You have a turn rate 2x as fast as the missiles. So just break as hard as possible and you'll be fine.

4. Not watching your egress and getting jumped by a MiG. Just press C and pay attention to where you're going. Don't stop turning either.

I could go on for much longer, but this should make life much easier and allow you affect the ground battle significantly. Happy hunting.

carrack090 · Post by **carrack090** » 2007-10-15 18:33

option 2, tell tanks where AA is, if possible, save your jet, also, its a bit hard to fly together atm, since it makes it twice as easy to hit one of you if theres 2 planes to see and not just one. altogether a good tactic but why would you use srm's on a gound unit anyway?

Post by **Masaq** » 2007-10-16 17:50

I gotta agree there - to my mind it makes more sense to call in a Heli or a tank - even an APC - on the AAV than to go in in the hope of making 2-3 passes with a wingman ( or 4-6 passes by yourself) over something that's got the potential to drop you like a stone.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2007-10-16 21:24

Ok if I have to explain this with a cartoon I will. But I don't have time for that right now. Anyways, SAM sites are at an even priority as enemy fighters. Even more so in some cases, as an idiot in a MiG isn't as bad as an idiot in a missile launcher. If you let AAVs roam free thats about the same as giving them free shots at your A-10, choppers and other jets. And Missiles are more useful as unguided rockets than as anti-air weapons, provided you have a good idea where it is. For the most part, you can only get hit by missiles if you screw up. However we can hit the SAM with as many missiles as we like, provided we are aiming well. We have countermeasures and can take advantage of terrain, SAMs have neither. Believe me, having 12 missiles slam into you could ruin your hopes and dreams. Also, not having designated air to ground munitions makes life rather boring at best, and a serious drawback at worst. So basically, if you learn to be effective with basic weapons like the M61, or unsuitable yet manageable weapons like the AIM-9, when bombs are implemented, things will become dramatically easier. This is good practice and you only need to worry about the guns mounted on the Tunguska or Bradley. Oh and attack choppers aren't on Kashan 64. And yeah I personally like calling in armor on the SAMS, but 80% of the time, they either die, or never arrive. So learning to manage is a good thing. I use AAVs all the time and I can honestly say that I'd feel safer in a jet.

Post by **Masaq** » 2007-10-22 15:20

No need to get offensive; cartoons aren't necessary.

My point is, on a map like Kashan if the pilot can't stay clear of a hostile AAV then they shouldn't be in the cockpit. It takes but a moment to ask for help, and so long as you haven't let the enemy ground-attack craft smack seven kind of bells out of your teams' tanks, then there should be enough armor on the map to hit an AAV fairly hard.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2007-10-22 23:05

[R-MOD]Masaq wrote:No need to get offensive; cartoons aren't necessary.

My point is, on a map like Kashan if the pilot can't stay clear of a hostile AAV then they shouldn't be in the cockpit. It takes but a moment to ask for help, and so long as you haven't let the enemy ground-attack craft smack seven kind of bells out of your teams' tanks, then there should be enough armor on the map to hit an AAV fairly hard.

If a pilot gets hit by AAV on Kashan they shouldn't be in the cockpit either. AA vehicles are on par with fighters as far as priority goes, so letting them push into a position where they can take shots at the A-10 is as bad as letting a fighter get into it. In fact as far as reality goes, killing enemy air defenses is just as important as killing the enemy air force. The guns are laser accurate for the fighters, so its basically up to the skill of the pilot(s). As for asking armor to attack the SAM, usually 1 of two things will happen:

1. Tank is killed by any number of cannon/ missile wielding opponents.

2. SAM kills allied aircraft, or at least denies the area to friendly aircraft before your tank arrives. Either is a loss for you. As a fast moving plane you should be cutting into everything your weapons can affect, and thats everything but tanks. SAMs need to be hit at every opportunity if you want to even have a chance. You can't just not attack it when you're perfectly capable of doing so.

So you get shot down by a AAV, five minutes later you're back up again, as opposed to a 20 minute respawn for everything else. And I don't need to explain the current AAM, SAM situation to anyone, so you frankly should have minor problems if you work with another fighter. I haven't seen a thread saying that AAVs are overpowered, but I've seen a dozen saying the opposite. This will be fixed in 0.7 I imagine, so at least learning to terrain mask and control the guns accurately puts you pretty far ahead of anyone else. If you can't do that well... theres always Blackhawks right?

Tweaky · Post by **Tweaky** » 2007-10-22 23:23

Best option is to drop flares and increase altitude at a 45 degree or greater (vertical) angle. Works everytime for me... when I am in the A-10. It clusters the flares like in your picture, but you can retreat high into the clouds where it betters your chance of the enemy losing visibility. People tend to stay below the clouds, beats me why one would do that....

So much talking of the A-10 being dead in this.... must be some really poor pilots out there

But CAS, I can understand why you talk about the A-10 being dead LOL.... the team struggles without that plane, and happens all the time.

But to be honest? I haven't seen Kashan 64-player on a server for about a month now. I think people are tired of it, and/or it is losing its value because the AA is so worthless.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2007-10-23 06:00

Haha, yeah the A-10 is the ace in the hole no pun intended for the US. Figured the AA would be somewhat repaired in the patch but no joy.