Some... Unpleasant notes about playing.

[Deyo]

I spent some more time with it this evening, and it feels like the handling advantage of the M16, if any, is very slight. If the engine doesn't support this , it's likely to be a major drawback for the combined arms concept, since one weapon will be superior in almost all contexts. Looking at the single-shot, iron sight, prone posture accuracy of the M249, though, I have to wonder if I have the mod installed correctly. Shot placement from rest is not as consistent as I would think...

-c.

[twisted]

The reason not every soldier weilds a SAW is that the SAW, while an excellent choice for long-range fire suppression and rapid infantry takedown, has the close-range handling of a halberd with a Mongol still stuck to the blade. If you're aiming a SAW, and look over your right shoulder, and an enemy infantryman holding an AK101 is looking at you from the same position, that infantryman will kill you, because he can bring his weapon to bear and line up his target *much* faster than you can.

If you have a SAW, and your buddy has an M16A2, he can take down or pin any flanking forces, while you set and aim your weapon to eliminate them.

Again, it's possible that the handling differences are already in the mod, and I just haven't spent enough time with it to notice them, but those differences, implemented properly, could make a support kit stick close to an assault/medic/spec-ops without making the SAW the poor man's knife that it is in the basic version of BF2.

-c.

this is a great point. the bigger the gun the slower it can swing on target. it's perhaps not the only solution but a real good part of one. combine these with ideas suggested by ir0nside:

- Firing delay on position change. similar to the above?
- Inaccuracy after 3-5 round bursts. (basically fire control. if you're firing in bursts longer than 5 shots you are probably enganging an area target, like a squad, not a point target anyway).

and perhaps turning angle restriction while firing/ prone (if not too tricky to program). and then all of a sudden you have a specialist weapon that is naturally deployed in much the role it should be.

i play support 90% of the time (assualt the rest) and i beleive these changes would improve gameplay and the need for tactics and teamwork.

[Maj.b00bz]

"Yeahm the auto fire for the AK sucks. But I almost never use auto fire anymore on the US or MEC cause it's just too dang inaccurate."


I have to chime in here because this is why I support this mod. As a former USMC rifleman, I never fired my weapon on burst for real (Desert Storm) or for training. Ok ok, if we had to blow off a bunch of extra ammo in a range, fine. The point is, firing semi-auto always got better results. PR got it right.

[SiN|ScarFace]

Squads should look like this.

SL = M4, binocs, pistol, nades (Limited to one player)
RM = m16, nades, smoke, ammo (No limit)
M = m16, med pack, nades, paddles (Limited to one player)
S = m249(or w/e lmg), nades (Limited to one player)

I did not put sniper as they should not be in a squad and should only be 1 per team.

Also Medic and Support should not be selectable until you join a squad and they have thoes slots open.

This wont work with the current ingame stuff but it could be modded to work.
Change the Spec Ops class to squad leader, but make him look like an asssault guy but with an M4.

With forced limits on kits most of the problems with gameplay will be improved and promote even more team work. If there are only a few medics, revives will be reduced and have to be executed more carefully. There wont be too many saw gunners. There wont be more than 2 snipers in the game. It should be based around the Rifle men who make up the force and are supported by the more specialized kits.

Kit limits are essential for this mod.

[JavaMoose]

- Firing delay on position change. similar to the above?
- Inaccuracy after 3-5 round bursts. (basically fire control. if you're firing in bursts longer than 5 shots you are probably enganging an area target, like a squad, not a point target anyway).

and perhaps turning angle restriction while firing/ prone (if not too tricky to program). and then all of a sudden you have a specialist weapon that is naturally deployed in much the role it should be.

Those sound like they would be excellent if implemented. Take a bit of fine-tuning, but would be awesome in-game, imho.

[AnomMerc]

I think the sniper class should be limited to maybe 1 per team and then have a marksman class which functions with a squad having an m14. As for the saw, I think it should be more accurate, the recoil is totally unrealistic (America's army anyone?). But only with class limits of course, the ratio of saw gunners in real marine squads to regular riflemen is very low.

That hit the nail on the head.The recoil on the M249 in Americas army will have you shooting at the sky after 10 shots unless you really fight to hold it down with the mouse. In AA even if you dive and fire it will have near enough the same reaction with recoil as if you were standing up unless you choose to put the stand down which takes two seconds.

EDIT I see the diving is being cut out in the new patch. good.

[triumph]

Limiting SAW ammo would be nice by putting the ammo bag into a riflemens kit so the rifle men would be forced to support a SAW on assaulting unless everyone is respawning like crazy.
It also would be nice if the support class weapons could be deployed to look like the static ones that are placed around some areas of BF2 but angle limits would be nice too as said in an above post.

[Lifetaker]

That hit the nail on the head.The recoil on the M249 in Americas army will have you shooting at the sky after 10 shots unless you really fight to hold it down with the mouse. In AA even if you dive and fire it will have near enough the same reaction with recoil as if you were standing up unless you choose to put the stand down which takes two seconds.

EDIT I see the diving is being cut out in the new patch. good.

I am guessing neither of you have actually fired an M249 in real life? Sure,if you fire it standing up or crouched, it's a beast to control, but from the prone on a bipod? It's easily managed. If anything, even more deadly than in game.

[fuzzhead]

I agree, IRL M249 Prone Supported, the weapon is VERY HIGHLY accurate.

[dawdler]

fuzzhead']I agree, IRL M249 Prone Supported, the weapon is VERY HIGHLY accurate.

But how long does it take to go prone with a heavy machinegun, set it up in a nice supported position, take aim and fire? My guess is quite a bit longer than the time a BF2 player can dive and pop a round in the head at 100m range

[twisted]

Lifetaker']I am guessing neither of you have actually fired an M249 in real life? Sure,if you fire it standing up or crouched, it's a beast to control, but from the prone on a bipod? It's easily managed. If anything, even more deadly than in game.

then it should be a beast to control while standing/crouched. ATM it is easy to use no matter what. if prone its deadly accurate thats cool cause you wont have squads of guys running and gunning with m249s.

[chew6acca]

Good idea on limiting use of certain classes.

Would it be possible to code it so that only a certain percentage of players in a team can use a class? That way it wouldn't matter if you are in a squad or not - some kits would be 'greyed out' if they were fully subscribed.

What classes belong in a typical squad? 1 of each?

I would have expected an average squad to be 6 assault, 1 medic, 1 engineer, 1 anti-tank, 1 support.

(can squad limits in bf2 be increased?)

wouldn't special forces have their own squads?

Same with snipers?

There is very little kick from the SAW compared to assault rifles - increase one or decrease the other.

There didn't seem to be much of a difference in how fast you can run carrying the SAW.

On TV news here they always show the same library footage of this guy waddling up a forest track carrying a heavy machine gun - he can hardly walk - never mind run.

Maybe a little more zoom on the assult rifle sights would encourage people to use it more?

[BrokenArrow]

Usually engineers would come in their own detachments, rather than being part of a normal squad I believe. SF would have their own squads but as it is I think one of the ideas is to make them into their own faction on a map. Snipers may become 'designated marksmen' which are used at the squad level, but if they are still snipers then those would usually work in small teams.

[asiLLasiTgets]

Lifetaker']I am guessing neither of you have actually fired an M249 in real life? Sure,if you fire it standing up or crouched, it's a beast to control, but from the prone on a bipod? It's easily managed. If anything, even more deadly than in game.

Fifty round belts go down range in a blink of the eye turning man size targets in to swiss cheese, I was very suprised at the accuracy of this weapon when I shot it, and even more suprised by the low ammount of recoil.