Squad Proximity Incentives

[DarkTalon]

We already have a system in place to reward squads that operate in close proximity, rewarding players extra points makes them feel better, and encourages teamplay. however an extra 50 support points wont win a battle, nor do most people really even care, since very few servers use any kind of ranking.

I propose we add an incentive (besides the very benefit of working together). heres an example of two british squads in Al Basrah.

Squad 1 5/6
the entire squad is in industry under light fire. one member is killed, immediately another member rushes up to him, knowing full well that he is killed and cannot be revived, the squad member picks up the dead soldiers kit, and puts it down again. Dead soldier one immediatly loses 10 seconds off of his respawn time and spawns on the SL 20 seconds later.

Squad 2 3/6
1 member is soloing a warrior, another is wandering the streets looking for caches with his special forces kit, lastly, the SL is on the roof of the hotel with a M-82. the helpless special ops operative looking for caches gets gun downed by a technical. isolated from his squad, with no one near him to "juggle his kt" he serves the full 30+ spawntime.

now this system is not exactly realistic, however respawn times aren't that realistic themselves. but by encouraging squad-play it boosts realism by proxy.

and if you don't want to read that. my suggestion is quite simply: if a squad member picks up your kit you get a faster respawn time.

[pasfreak]

theres a problem with this

the lone wolf squad....nothing will happen to them.
there has to be STRONG INCENTIVE to play as a squad.

first, no one cares how many points they have, its all about KDR.
this is why no one plays medic or engie.

second, most people don't really have the patience to go over and jiggle a kit, so why would anyone do it to them?

third, even if you do implement this feature, almost no one is going to know how to use it or that it exists unless they read the right part of the manual. its like the "click to heal" feature on medic that half of everyone doesn't know how to do.




i think a better solution would be some sort of "battle buddy" system, where you need to stay within 50m of a teammate for your kills to count.
if you are outside of that range of a squadmember, when you gun someone down, they die, but you will not get any credit for killing them, and they will get a shorter spawn time.
In addition, if you DIE outside of 50m of a squadmember, you have a longer respawn time (vs. shorter for within 50m)

this is what people care about.
no one cares about teamwork points.
please try this out or something like it in a beta and see how it works.

[zangoo]

i like pasfreak's idea cus it would be easy to understand and people would use it.

[DarkTalon]

theres a problem with this

the lone wolf squad....nothing will happen to them.
there has to be STRONG INCENTIVE to play as a squad.

first, no one cares how many points they have, its all about KDR.
this is why no one plays medic or engie.

second, most people don't really have the patience to go over and jiggle a kit, so why would anyone do it to them?

third, even if you do implement this feature, almost no one is going to know how to use it or that it exists unless they read the right part of the manual. its like the "click to heal" feature on medic that half of everyone doesn't know how to do.




i think a better solution would be some sort of "battle buddy" system, where you need to stay within 50m of a teammate for your kills to count.
if you are outside of that range of a squadmember, when you gun someone down, they die, but you will not get any credit for killing them, and they will get a shorter spawn time.
In addition, if you DIE outside of 50m of a squadmember, you have a longer respawn time (vs. shorter for within 50m)

this is what people care about.
no one cares about teamwork points.
please try this out or something like it in a beta and see how it works.

might want to reread my post, i was stating that points don't matter. this does not affect points, it just funnels squad members back into the fight faster if they are close to their teammates.
as for your argument about the manual, i think we should give people who read the manual an advantage, if you don't care enough to read a 5 page pdf. then you probably don't care about PR enough to be an effective squad member.

also, you argue that points are obsolete and no one really uses them, why would people care if they got credit for a kill or not if they did not care about their score?

also, your system seems to force teamwork onto people, while this system is completely optional and rewards teamplayers rather than punishing anyone who is not standing next to another blue.

[[T]Terranova7]

I like it... I really do. It's a simple idea, but very effective. It makes teamwork and knowledge of the game much more powerful. Squads that know how to utilize this feature and keep within close proximity with each other will become just that more effective.

Now, problem is will this work for both killed and critically wounded players? Or just one. In most cases the killed state doesn't last long to begin with. Usually you go through a 30+ second period where you're simply critically wounded, and the killed period is usually dependent on how many deaths you have. This might cause confusion when "jiggling" a fallen comrades kit, especially if a medic is nearby ready to revive.

I'd say make it simpler. Once a player picks up his/her fallen comrades kit, the critically wounded period becomes zero, and the killed period is initiated. I'd probably add 15 seconds to the killed period standard, adding more seconds as the player accumulates more deaths. This way, it's 45+ seconds on average if you're not using the feature, but if you are using it, you can literally cut 30 or more seconds off your respawn time.

Or... another idea might be this. Make it so that every player can "knife" a critically wounded player in the same sense that they can revive them. Except that by knifing the downed player they take away their comrades critically wounded period like above. Think of it as collecting your comrades dog tags, once you knife the critically wounded player a neat little metal sound can be added for extra effect, to give the player a reference that he/she made a successful "collect".

[DarkTalon]

I'd say make it simpler. Once a player picks up his/her fallen comrades kit, the critically wounded period becomes zero, and the killed period is initiated. I'd probably add 15 seconds to the killed period standard, adding more seconds as the player accumulates more deaths. This way, it's 45+ seconds on average if you're not using the feature, but if you are using it, you can literally cut 30 or more seconds off your respawn time.

I agree, this keeps a minimum 15 second.
however (not sure) but when you TK/kill a civie doesn't the extra spawn time go onto the critically wounded? could be an exploit for "blackwater squads"

Or... another idea might be this. Make it so that every player can "knife" a critically wounded player in the same sense that they can revive them. Except that by knifing the downed player they take away their comrades critically wounded period like above. Think of it as collecting your comrades dog tags, once you knife the critically wounded player a neat little metal sound can be added for extra effect, to give the player a reference that he/she made a successful "collect".

I also like this, maybe make it so if you knife an enemy corpse it adds +10 seconds to spawntime, might reduce lone wolf players, since people are less likely to knife a random corpse when they are under fire.

[pasfreak]

I like it... I really do. It's a simple idea, but very effective. It makes teamwork and knowledge of the game much more powerful. Squads that know how to utilize this feature and keep within close proximity with each other will become just that more effective.

Now, problem is will this work for both killed and critically wounded players? Or just one. In most cases the killed state doesn't last long to begin with. Usually you go through a 30+ second period where you're simply critically wounded, and the killed period is usually dependent on how many deaths you have. This might cause confusion when "jiggling" a fallen comrades kit, especially if a medic is nearby ready to revive.

I'd say make it simpler. Once a player picks up his/her fallen comrades kit, the critically wounded period becomes zero, and the killed period is initiated. I'd probably add 15 seconds to the killed period standard, adding more seconds as the player accumulates more deaths. This way, it's 45+ seconds on average if you're not using the feature, but if you are using it, you can literally cut 30 or more seconds off your respawn time.

Or... another idea might be this. Make it so that every player can "knife" a critically wounded player in the same sense that they can revive them. Except that by knifing the downed player they take away their comrades critically wounded period like above. Think of it as collecting your comrades dog tags, once you knife the critically wounded player a neat little metal sound can be added for extra effect, to give the player a reference that he/she made a successful "collect".

i think it would be more understandable for a PR newbie if it was some sort of "dog tag" approach.
you know how when u knife someone in 2142 you get their tags?

i was thinking we could have a thing where you hit "e" or something on the dead body and then a graphic pops up of dog tags

(i was thinking something like this)--minus the "uss kidd" and "address 1/address 2" lines and smaller



this way, at least the "kit jiggling" thing would be a little easier to do, and it would be more widespread and well known.

always think like a newb, act like an experienced player

[DarkTalon]

lol, one thing i need to let you guys know before this thread continues, it was never "kit jiggling" it was juggling. need to read the first post better.

jiggling does not even make any sense in this context.

but as far as the dog tags go, i don't think they're necessary. it really does not do anything to contribute to gameplay or promote teamwork. and as soon as 2142 players see "dogtags system" on the change list for a patch they are going to pull out their knives and start chasing Marines.

[Sgt_Canadian_Floss]

I like Pastfreak's idea of the 50m radius around your teammate for your kill to count.
But for long range engagements, It wouldnt be to great because the squads are usually try to cover as much terrain as they can to sweep out the ennemies.
So make the distance vary depending on the map.

[pasfreak]

no like...if you are in a squad, and you have one teammate within a 50 meter radius, your kill counts, as in on the scoreboard it will show up as "1 kill"

if you are lone wolfing it, you will not get any "kills"




if, you are a DMR or something and you snipe someone, your kill WILL count if you have a squadmate within 50 m.

has nothing to do with how far away the enemy is.

[zardez]

still i don't see it happening, let the ninjas do their lone wolf why not?

[[T]Terranova7]

I think PR's intent is to encourage teamwork, and make it much more appealing. Players shouldn't be punished for not being within 50m of another squadmate. Sometimes during the game you may want to be somewhat spread out, other times an intense firefight may separate the squad members. Not receiving credit for a kill or having an increased spawn time for not being next to someone else seems more like a hassle than anything.

The whole squad proximity thing brings up an old suggestion I've been meaning to bring up. The SL's motivation, or battle cry. Basically the SL, equipped with an officer's kit can initiate a "battle cry" which gives nearby SMs a 50% boost in health and stamina. The effect only affects SMs within 25 meters of the SL, and the effects only last for about 10 to 15 seconds. It could be a deciding factor in an intense firefight. The SL can only use it after a certain amount of time (say every 3 minutes).

Also, about the health. After the effect wears off the player will lose the 50% health he/she received from the SL's battle cry.

[::Major_Baker::]

what is all this?
Squads stick together just fine. If they don't the lone wolf gets kicked. No need for extra rules, IMO.

If someone already doesn't understand and value the effetiveness of staying close to squaddies, they won't get their minds changed by a shorter respawn time.

[DarkTalon]

what is all this?
Squads stick together just fine. If they don't the lone wolf gets kicked. No need for extra rules, IMO.

If someone already doesn't understand and value the effetiveness of staying close to squaddies, they won't get their minds changed by a shorter respawn time.

well, then this suggestion helps those squads out by giving them a shorter respawn time, and it encourages teamwork in squads without proper organization (believe me they are out there) .

[Ragni<RangersPL>]

this is why no one plays medic or engie.

Not true. There are many players that play as a medic or engie. The truth is they are in minority. That's why you can't see them very often

[pasfreak]

i wasn't being completely literal.

however there are many, many instances where i check the screen and simply no one is playing (especially as medic) - support roles.

[Masaq]

There's a debate to be had about whether the game can really force people to behave in certain ways or whether it should make them want to behave in that way because they can see it's better. This is one of those issues.

If people have no interest in sticking together they won't stick together regardless of any in-game punitive method of making them, is my take on it.