shotguns

HughJass · Post by **HughJass** » 2007-10-21 05:22

shotguns just suck WAY too much in this game, even in close ranges. the shot needs to be more clumped together and starts spreading later, in real life these shotguns shoot way farther. bring back the slug too

pasfreak · Post by **pasfreak** » 2007-10-21 06:57

yeah the shotguns are really really inaccurate here. people who have shot one before can vouch for this.

Warmagi · Post by **Warmagi** » 2007-10-21 10:02

Agree, shotguns should rule on street and their not cause they are not effective weapon. They good just for face to face action aka knife combat.

Superior Mind · Post by **Superior Mind** » 2007-10-21 15:52

This absolutely needs to be changed. It really makes the engineer class useless at laying down fire on maps that use the shotgun.

TristanYockell · Post by **TristanYockell** » 2007-10-21 16:29

Agreed, the shot pattern is way, way to large. Even with no choke at all like cylinder barrels found on law enforcement models do not spread nearly as much as in game.

I own my fair share of shotguns includeing police issue so I can deffinatly vouch.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-10-21 16:44

The spread of a full choked shotgun is approximately 1" for every yard. This translates to ~2.78m spread for every 100m. This translates to ~1.59 degrees of spread. The BF2 engine seems to work with radii instead of diameters when it comes to projectiles so this value is halved to ~0.795 degrees. You change the "ObjectTemplate.deviation.subProjectileDev" modifier value from "3" to "0.795" and you have a fairly accurate buckshot spread. To test this I shot a box which was ~1 wide at 36m away on Operation Ghost Train and found that the spread neatly fell within that 1m area.

HughJass · Post by **HughJass** » 2007-10-21 16:49

nedlands1 wrote:The spread of a full choked shotgun is approximately 1" for every yard. This translates to ~2.78m spread for every 100m. This translates to ~1.59 degrees of spread. The BF2 engine seems to work with radii instead of diameters when it comes to projectiles so this value is halved to ~0.795 degrees. You change the "ObjectTemplate.deviation.subProjectileDev" modifier value from "3" to "0.795" and you have a fairly accurate buckshot spread. To test this I shot a box which was ~1 wide at 36m away on Operation Ghost Train and found that the spread neatly fell within that 1m area.

Wow great job! good info my friend. We just need to get this in to the game.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-10-21 17:03

HughJass wrote:Wow great job! good info my friend. We just need to get this in to the game.

There is more to be done then just fiddle with the accuracy

. The damage needs to be sorted out too. Shot from a shotgun loses velocity fairly quickly too. This results in a huge loss in penetration over range. IRL a person with military body armor with probably get some nasty bruises and some serious winding when shot by buckshot at close range in the chest. It wouldn't kill them. On the other hand, being shot in a vital area when not wearing body armor could result in death. Every class in the conventional armies have body armor (except spec-ops). That would mean that for most part, the shotgun would not be able to kill but would be the mother-of-all-flashbangs if we wanted realism >>> gameplay.

Warmagi · Post by **Warmagi** » 2007-10-21 20:33

Body armor or not shooting someone in the face will make a black pudding out of it

Sgt_Canadian_Floss · Post by **Sgt_Canadian_Floss** » 2007-10-21 22:38

More red/pink.
But I really agree with the idea.
Being able to kill someone that is 6 meters from you is kinda not cool.
I dont like to rn into ennemie fire with my shotgun trying to kill someone.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-10-25 14:39

nedlands1 wrote:The spread of a full choked shotgun is approximately 1" for every yard. This translates to ~2.78m spread for every 100m. This translates to ~1.59 degrees of spread. The BF2 engine seems to work with radii instead of diameters when it comes to projectiles so this value is halved to ~0.795 degrees. You change the "ObjectTemplate.deviation.subProjectileDev" modifier value from "3" to "0.795" and you have a fairly accurate buckshot spread. To test this I shot a box which was ~1 wide at 36m away on Operation Ghost Train and found that the spread neatly fell within that 1m area.

DEV response?

MikeDude · Post by **MikeDude** » 2007-10-25 21:33

i think you got a great point there mate

its not my faforite weapon but maybe that will change after the gun changed..
and does the shotgun has a normal aiming just like every other weapon? or does it still have the bad aiming when you click right mouse button.

DarkTalon · Post by **DarkTalon** » 2007-10-25 21:39

I don't mind the saiga now, it has a really nice firing rate, especially in close quarters, if you click that mouse fast enough when in a tight space such as the VCP, you can walk around a hesco block, see a british soldier, blindly shoot four times in his direction, and theres a body on the ground when you open your eyes.

but a little more damage and accuracy never killed anyone
[/irony]

zardez · Post by **zardez** » 2007-10-26 01:45

yeah shottys are pretty shite, think about it, in bf if someone is 100 meters away shooting a shot gun at you, it doesn't really say anything but nub. where as in RL if someone was 100m away shooting a shot gun even in your general direction you would sh1t yourself.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-10-26 01:51

DarkTalon wrote:I don't mind the saiga now, it has a really nice firing rate, especially in close quarters, if you click that mouse fast enough when in a tight space such as the VCP, you can walk around a hesco block, see a british soldier, blindly shoot four times in his direction, and theres a body on the ground when you open your eyes.

but a little more damage and accuracy never killed anyone
[/irony]

Actually if you made the changes I suggested (chocking back the shotgun) then the damage would probably have to be reduced either by fiddling with the "distance to minimum damage" modifier or the base damage. This is because The shotgun would have the same stopping power at point blank as at 18m (~ spread is a body width).

General Dragosh · Post by **General Dragosh** » 2007-10-26 02:04

then if we get the shotguns to work properly, we need to use theyr ironsights too for longer ranges of course !!!

Teek · Post by **Teek** » 2007-10-26 02:07

I saw a tester video where they where testing damage drop off, perhaps that would help your quest for a more realistic shotgun?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5XzTDwKR7E

Doc_Frank · Post by **Doc_Frank** » 2007-10-26 09:39

Yesterday I unloaded a couple of cartridges on some Brits in Op Ghost Train to reply to their bullets. They won 100%...

Even when my attack was a clean shot from fairly close range, they shrugged it off, found me and finished me off. In vanilla this rate of damage is alright, since speed is faster there and I used to roll with Jackhammer anyway.

The shotgun was an instant-kill weapon there (given the range). But in PR they are like ticklers, since you probably won't get close like trying to bunnyhop the G36's burst and cover a whole room with buckshots.

I agree with nedlands1's suggestion about the choke and power, and really loved the mentioning about the disorienting effect. So DEVs! Apart from mostly every PR fan's wish to rationalise the shotguns' physics, would a secondary effect be possible? Causing minor flashbang effects, or the blur that a seriously wounded soldier experiences?

Lucid Nightmare · Post by **Lucid Nightmare** » 2007-10-26 19:12

RE Shotgun damage:

While at close range, if the target was wearing body armour, it would not be as likely to kill them, it would certainly incapacitate them. Broken ribs, torn muscles, possible internal bleeding not to mention it would hurt like a motherfucker. Chances of fighting back anytime soon are below minimal.

While technically they are not killed in reality, for all intents and purposes, they would be in BF2.

LtSoucy · Post by **LtSoucy** » 2007-10-26 19:17

so everyone knows shotguns are not asuualt rifles. Use them close and they are really good. and We have slugs.