Magical Zooming Eyes.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2006-01-01 21:35

I've always wondered why, in first person shooters that utilize the "Iron-sight" effect, there is always this magical zooming feature added to various weapons that do not have any type of scope...

I feel that this is VERY unrealistic. Not only that but, it kind of defeats the purpose of scoped weapons. Scopes are available for a reason, to see further. Looking down the sights should, realistically, be nothing more than looking down the sights. Scoped weapons need to have a DISTINCT advantage. As it is now the diversity between unscoped weapons and scoped weapons is a thin line..

One could argue that this simulates a "focusing" of the soldier while peering down the sights of his weapon for a more accurate shot. However, realistically speaking, that is a very mediocre method of simulating any type of focusing of the human eye.

There's also something that really bugs me about the zooming feature on unscoped weapons. It SEVERLY decreases your Field of View. I like to walk around in tight spaces on urban maps with my weapon shouldered and sights up ready to eliminate any threat. With the zooming feature this is very difficult because my FOV is limited in the tight spaces. So what ends up happening is I always get killed first by the guy thats running with his gun at his hip because I had my sights up and didn't see him quick enough when, realistically, looking down the sights attentively and moving slowly should give a player the advantage...

So to sum it all up I think on weapons without scopes there should be no zooming allowed. Or at least a VERY little amount of zooming.

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2006-01-01 22:14

Actually it is from a gameplay point of view in BF: Its a "pro" so people will find it usefull.

I guess its a relic from original BF1942, where zooming simply zoomed your view. In BF2 they just slapped an ironsight effect over it. The actual gains in accuracy when rightclicking (both BF1942 and BF2) are minimal, so the zoom is the only pro there is.

I agree with your point though. Doesnt soldiers carry binoculars? That should be our "zoom".

Eden · Post by **Eden** » 2006-01-01 22:44

I could be wrong but remember irl when your walking around nothing spesific is in focus, when you take your time and forus on a spesific thing you are able to see more detail I think this is basicly why they have the slight zoom for the iron-sights

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2006-01-02 00:44

IMO, even from a gameplay standpoint, for a realism mod, I think having a zooming capability on non-scoped weapons is more of a negative benifactor to the overall realistic experience..

Allowing a player to see farther without having any type of technical involvment (scope or the like) in the proccess, kind of goes against the whole realism idea.

The balance of gameplay and realism is constant. This is something we all know. In a situation like this, you have to ask yourself, "Will changing something like this have a negative affect or a positive affect on the players overall experience of the Mod?".

Personally I think removing the zoom, or even reducing it drastically, will have a very positive affect on the realism gameplay experience. With no visible crosshairs present, the "Iron-sight" effect becomes very important. Thus I think the factor which calls for the zooming effect allowing people to find the iron-sight aiming useful, becomes totally irrelevant.

All realism issues pertaining to the zooming aside, we have to take a look at other aspects which may cause zooming to have a negative affect on gameplay. For instance, the limited view distances. With limited view distances, zooming really becomes more of a nuisance to gameplay experience because the distances at which engagements take place are all instantly made extremely close. So basically there really is no need for the zoom. You could consider it overkill I guess. I mean, here we have a specifically limited environment and then you got super soldiers with zooming eyes and what not, it's a bit of blatant ignorance from a realism experience viewpoint. If the view distances were a little larger and long distance shots became more difficult, then I could understand the neccessity of the non-scope zooming.

As it is, with the view distances we are delt with, I see no real need for any type of zooming on non-scoped weapons. Long-distance shots are made extremely easy with this feature on assault rifles. Which in turn causes people to whine about it. Thus the accuracies become worse than they should be. With the removal or decrease in the zooming effect we could keep the accuracies of these assault rifles relativly realistic and still maintain a good level of difficulty for making long-distance shots.

At the same time you would also be increasing the level of overall realism to the Mod.

Hey, plus, coding wise, this is very simple. It takes 5 minutes. I've already done it.

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2006-01-02 02:42

Zooming... true, ther is no actual 'zoom' when you look down the sight of a weapon.

constricted vision? definetely. aiming down the sight of a weapon definetely constricts your field of vision. perhaps a more accurate representation of iron sights would be similar to the current, just make the iron sight (model and 2d image) take up the whole screen instead of about half of it, and get rid of the zoom. and make it seem like the far end of the weapon is actually far away... it seems to close with some weapons, especially the m16.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-02 03:28

DOD:S has good sights. Theres still a little zoom but in effect it helps to narrow your field of vision.

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-01-02 03:30

I think removing the sight zoom would get rid of the "tunnel vision" effect that comes with using a weapon's sights, although the fairly high level of zoom does encourage a lot of semi-auto sniping. Scaling the zoom effect down to only 110% or 120% for a time would be prudent. If gameplay improves we can keep marginal zoom or remove it completely in another hotfix. And by we I mean the devs.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-02 03:32

Right leaving the zoom actually causes a lack of a wide field of vision.

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-01-02 03:37

And a little tunnel vision, a little focus helps encourage semi-auto marksmanship without rivaling the high-powered sniper scopes.

SiN|ScarFace · Post by **SiN|ScarFace** » 2006-01-10 23:10

yea for a realism mod there should be no zoom.

Owl · Post by **Owl** » 2006-01-10 23:14

I deffinately agree, and think that zoom should be removed

Harven · Post by **Harven** » 2006-01-10 23:17

Just takes practice.. I can get my eyes to zoom in about 150% ...

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-10 23:34

Hahaha. How much practice did this take?

twisted · Post by **twisted** » 2006-01-10 23:44

no zoom sounds lovely. the perfect accompanyment to no 'hud' crosshairs already implemented.

Qla · Post by **Qla** » 2006-01-11 10:52

Aye, say NO to zoom, mate.

JellyBelly · Post by **JellyBelly** » 2006-01-11 12:21

I think its supposed to simulate focusing on a specific point instead of just generaly looking around in a wider area.

Qla · Post by **Qla** » 2006-01-11 14:25

You can allways focus your own, real yes on the center of the screen, but do not make me do that, as BF2 did, with the zoom...

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2006-01-11 16:15

Qla wrote:You can allways focus your own, real yes on the center of the screen, but do not make me do that, as BF2 did, with the zoom...

Exactly! The game is basically forcing you to do something that I would MUCH rather do on my own. Realistically, the effect given isn't even possible! If I wanted to close one eye and look at the center of my screen I could and it would be VERY realistic. But it doesn't make my screen come closer to my eye. The point is that forcing a theoretical "simulation" of a certain task that humans do when needed is actually a disability in the game.

It's one thing to close one eye and focus on something at the end of the berrel. But it's another thing to have some type of zoom when doing so.

Zooming in to focus on something, WITHOUT an ocular device, is not a simulation of focusing, it is a SUBSTITUTION for focusing.

To simulate the focusing you would have to add some type of visual effect that could SLIGHTLY reduce the FoV WITHOUT zooming.(thats quite simple because the weapon sights already reduce it a little.)

Reducing your FoV and ZOOMING are two completely different things. Yes, with the game engine when you zoom you DO lose your FoV. But to SUBSTITUTE that for focusing, im my eyes, is as unrealistic as elephants baking cakes.

If it boils down to what's realistic and what's not, the fact of the matter is that the zooming effect is not realistic in ANY way. Wether you think its a simulation of focusing or not, the fact still remains that it is totally unrealistic.

Why substitute a simple effect with something so unrealistic when you can actually SIMULATE the effect with something more realistic?

pasfreak · Post by **pasfreak** » 2007-10-29 22:23

I want to revive this thread...
I was going to post another one about this but I found this one and figured what the heck.

This seems to be an issue that was proposed but was left out because the unrealistic zoom gave way to more "tunnel vision" which was deemed realistic enough. and apparently, the post about eliminating zoom and increasing the size of the rear sight...was ignored.

I think another good solution would be to blur the outside part of the screen
try coiling up a piece of paper into a small tube and look throught it held at about 6 inches from your face- this is what is should look like.

Are we gonna get this zoom reduction for non- scoped weapons?

TBH, things with ironsights should not have ANY zoom WHATSOEVER.
same goes for reflex sights like the aimpoint.

there is a reason every soldier gets binoculars both in game and IRL.

use them.

basically- we should get NO zoom for un-scopes, and a blurring effect.

Doc_Frank · Post by **Doc_Frank** » 2007-10-29 22:55

I like the blurring idea! Otherwise, I think a little bit of zoom could stay on ironsights, representing the focusing.

What I really hate right now is the zoom of the rifleman and officer's M-16. I just can't wait for their .7 ACOG...