Tanks vs. Helicopters

lion551 · Post by **lion551** » 2007-11-02 04:49

'Xander[nl wrote:;519431']If you make the TVguideds range longer (dunno about realism on that tho), choppers won't have to deal that much anymore with sniping tanks. (they can just hover on the other side of the map, like they do in real life).

And well, yes tancrews are trained to take choppers down. But I don't think that includes shooting choppers at speeds of 200-250 km/h? as they do in PR. If a chopper is hovering in a danger zone, then thats the pilot's fault, not PR's fault. But if a tank snipes down a chopper, at full speed, then that aint fair.

And that is basically my point i have been flying low at full speed in the Apaches and boom a tank shell comes like a bat oout of hell and blows up the chopper, very frustrating

lion551 · Post by **lion551** » 2007-11-02 04:53

HughJass wrote:you must be a preatty bad pilot if you get shot down my tanks xD

Well if you consider the fact that I was flying full speed and got shot down 3 times by a tank while doing so, i don't know if that classifies me as a bad pilot having been in the apache one game and didn't die once. Mabey its just bad luck, but i would love to go one on one against you anytime.

Post by **Ninja2dan** » 2007-11-02 05:23

Any modern MBT with a stabalized turret and advanced targetting system such as that on the Abrams can take out a helicopter as well as almost any moving vehicle. As long as you move in a constant direction and speed, you become nothing more than a stationary target as far as the ballistics computer is concerned. It calculates your speed and range, ballistic properties of the loaded ammo, and bingo. A fire solution is made and all the gunner needs to do is keep tracking you smoothly.

Although armor in PR lacks such a ballistics computer, you can still minimize your chances of being shot down by several ways. First, don't enter an AOB without sending in a scout party, either on foot or in the air (high-alt recon helos work well if you use them correctly). Second, don't fly in a straight line like you are sprinting from A to B. Zig-zag, and make slight changes to speed and altitude.

It's just like being a foot soldier. If you come under fire, don't just run straight towards cover. Zig-zag to avoid giving someone the chance to apply lead, or else you might as well just stand there and take the hit. You'll die less tired at least.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-11-02 05:25

lion551 wrote:Well if you consider the fact that I was flying full speed and got shot down 3 times by a tank while doing so, i don't know if that classifies me as a bad pilot having been in the apache one game and didn't die once. Mabey its just bad luck, but i would love to go one on one against you anytime.

Were you flying perpendicular to the tank's view in each case or towards or away from them? IMO a good pilot never actually sees his/her armored target as they hang beyond the target's visual range but within TV missile range (~500m < range < ~1000m), ready for their gunner to strike. This is facilitated by communication of the location of target between the team and the gunner, who is the squad leader, and then the between the gunner and his pilot. The gunner puts an attack marker on the target in order to gauge range and approximate location. Once in range, the TV missile is launched at the marker and once the target becomes visible, adjustments to the aim are made.

lion551 · Post by **lion551** » 2007-11-02 06:31

nedlands1 wrote:Were you flying perpendicular to the tank's view in each case or towards or away from them? IMO a good pilot never actually sees his/her armored target as they hang beyond the target's visual range but within TV missile range (~500m < range < ~1000m), ready for their gunner to strike. This is facilitated by communication of the location of target between the team and the gunner, who is the squad leader, and then the between the gunner and his pilot. The gunner puts an attack marker on the target in order to gauge range and approximate location. Once in range, the TV missile is launched at the marker and once the target becomes visible, adjustments to the aim are made.

Only if this were true in pr

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-11-02 06:37

lion551 wrote:Only if this were true in pr

It is. I do it all the time. Since 0.5.

RHYS4190 · Post by **RHYS4190** » 2007-11-02 06:48

He has a point hope no ones beaten him up about this. well a tank can shot down an Attack chopper BUT... here is the thing attack choppers never get close enough for the tanks to shot them down they shot from miles away. Plus attack choppers have a camera with a zoom so they can snipe from long range with there machine gun and other weapons. the trick with choppers in this game is just to hang back and snipe at long range with TV missiles but fortune you can't do it with the gun though

.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-11-02 07:01

RHYS4190 wrote:He has a point hope no ones beaten him up about this. well a tank can shot down an Attack chopper BUT... here is the thing attack choppers never get close enough for the tanks to shot them down they shot from miles away. Plus attack choppers have a camera with a zoom so they can snipe from long range with there machine gun and other weapons. the trick with choppers in this game is just to hang back and snipe at long range with TV missiles but fortune you can't do it with the gun though .

Yeah and if you tried the attack marker trick in conjunction with the underslung cannon your existence would be short lived. It would just be a case of following back on the tracers. The likelihood is that there will be obstructions in the way too.

Post by **Ninja2dan** » 2007-11-02 07:15

If you are engaging a target with the 30mm, you better be damn sure it's not a heavy enough target to take you out of the sky. Armor and AA should be engaged with ATGM's, not the cannon. The real purpose of the cannon is anti-personnel and lightly-armored vehicles. The only thing a 30mm would do to any MBT is damage external optics or components, or destroy the troop gear hanging on the outside. Plus it'll give the armor crew a nasty headache. Exception being if the TC was dumb enough to be unbuttoned at the time.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-11-02 07:24

Ninja2dan wrote:If you are engaging a target with the 30mm, you better be damn sure it's not a heavy enough target to take you out of the sky. Armor and AA should be engaged with ATGM's, not the cannon. The real purpose of the cannon is anti-personnel and lightly-armored vehicles. The only thing a 30mm would do to any MBT is damage external optics or components, or destroy the troop gear hanging on the outside. Plus it'll give the armor crew a nasty headache. Exception being if the TC was dumb enough to be unbuttoned at the time.

Funny thing I noticed: when shooting your own unmanned tanks, they rollback heaps.

I imagine that sustained fire would wreak havoc with an APC or IFV IRL.

Edit: In response to the "unbuttoned" statement: Yeah that would be a bad time to have your pants down.

Post by **Ninja2dan** » 2007-11-02 08:03

nedlands1 wrote:Funny thing I noticed: when shooting your own unmanned tanks, they rollback heaps. I imagine that sustained fire would wreak havoc with an APC or IFV IRL.

Edit: In response to the "unbuttoned" statement: Yeah that would be a bad time to have your pants down.

In real life, the autocannons on an APC would do little damage to an MBT, at least enough to disable it, and would take every last round to actually try and destroy it. The APFSDS rounds will not penetrate MBT modern armor, but can disable tracks or break up the external components. With enough precision fire, a close range, and some time, I guess you could disable a tank. But in reality the tank would thump that APC off the map before it did more than chip the paint. It would "put a hurtin" on the crew inside though, as the constant noise from impact as well as the shock would probably throw them around inside quite a bit (no seatbelts).

As for the "unbuttoned" comment, I take it that reply was a joke? For those who aren't familiar with the term, when you close the hatches you are "buttoned up". That comment was for real tanks, as the TC in BF2/PR can't actually button up, he can only duck inside. Either way, in PR your TC is toast if you take top-down damage by even minimal HE right?

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-11-02 08:26

Ninja2dan wrote:As for the "unbuttoned" comment, I take it that reply was a joke? For those who aren't familiar with the term, when you close the hatches you are "buttoned up". That comment was for real tanks, as the TC in BF2/PR can't actually button up, he can only duck inside. Either way, in PR your TC is toast if you take top-down damage by even minimal HE right?

Yes it was said in jest. I think, even when you are ducked down, you can get hurt.

Doc_Frank · Post by **Doc_Frank** » 2007-11-02 08:45

A know that!

Wellink · Post by **Wellink** » 2008-01-09 17:51

They really need to change the tanks vs helicopters, I was flying littlebirds/blackhawks in zatar and got shot out of the sky 3 times by a tank, I flew at maximum speed and tried change altitude/speed all the time to try and confuse the tank but none of it worked I would just blew up again. Almost 50% of my chopper deaths are due Tanks rather than small arms fire or AA or even crashing this really needs fixing becuase its way to easy to shoot down a chopper in a tank.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-09 18:25

It can be difficult to take out tanks with a chopper nowadays. Normally you would think that a chopper is a damn effective counter to tanks but really the tanks have a pretty good defense being that the choppers have to get well within visual range and be setting relatively still for their gunner to shoot. The choppers now are extremely infantry dependant (laser targeting) but I'm not sure they are like this IRL. IIRC the laser targeting allows the choppers to fire a hellfire from well outside of a tanks range AND from behind a hill or something. I could just be talking out of my *** though as I haven't had a lot of time in them yet.

CodeC.Seven · Post by **CodeC.Seven** » 2008-01-09 18:28

In real life the tank would be down before he know there´s a chopper...

(HUN)Rud3bwoy · Post by **(HUN)Rud3bwoy** » 2008-01-09 18:57

Engineer wrote:
... and I suppose only way to fix it is to make helicopter to render as a tree in longer distances.......

I couldnt shoot a single person down the whole round if I saw trees flying through the sky shooting missiles in the distnace. I would just laugh too hard

Alex6714 · Post by **Alex6714** » 2008-01-09 19:05

Wellink wrote:They really need to change the tanks vs helicopters, I was flying littlebirds/blackhawks in zatar and got shot out of the sky 3 times by a tank, I flew at maximum speed and tried change altitude/speed all the time to try and confuse the tank but none of it worked I would just blew up again. Almost 50% of my chopper deaths are due Tanks rather than small arms fire or AA or even crashing this really needs fixing becuase its way to easy to shoot down a chopper in a tank.

No offense here but I am not sure it is the tank that needs changing rather than the way you fly. Just don´t go in the vicinity of a tank.

Viper.Sw · Post by **Viper.Sw** » 2008-01-09 19:35

By removing the camera-guided missiles the AH's have to go soooo close to hit a tank. They also have to stay still in front of tank to use and hit with the "laser-guided" missile. In real life they DO NOT need any damn infantry to spot tanks!

Hell, attack choppers are called "TANK DESTROYERS" for a reason!
They have radar, kill from kilometers away and hide. Tanks have no chance!
But now u gotta go so close so the gunner can "guide missile onto the tank with the mouse?! the lasertargeting system wont stay still anyways, so u gotta stand like 300 m from tank to gudie missile lol.

Also, as some others pointede out, the choppers have autotargeting radar systems with fire-and-forget.
Just add the things the A-10 had to autolock tanks before the 0.7 patch and make the AH's like R/L.

IRL id never bet my money on the tank, and there are millions of reasons why not to. the 0.7 patch managed to make the tank have better chance than the chopper imo.

markonymous · Post by **markonymous** » 2008-01-09 19:38

[R-MOD]dunehunter wrote:Yep, tanks irl are capable of shooting down chopters too. It's more a difference in tactics when compared to rl that results in so many chopter deaths in PR I think.

for example hovering 7km away and blowing the tanks to smitherins before they have a chance to even hear it.

Tanks vs. Helicopters

Why u made the AH's even less realistic?!