Target marker for helo gunner.

Hotrod525 · Post by **Hotrod525** » 2007-11-01 17:05

Hi, im here to suggest to add marker on vehicule target ( a square like the hud when you bomb something in vbf2 ) but only in cam mode, so the gunner will know where he's target is... it would be more realistic too ( fire system identifie treat...) anywayz its just s suggestion

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-11-01 18:30

actully , this can solve the proble of lack of radar un choppers , since radar cant be done in bf2 .

Xander[nl] · Post by **Xander[nl]** » 2007-11-01 19:29

Engineer wrote:I remember putting "attack here" orders ontop of the targets when I was a pilot. I suppose you are after the same thing, but just with different "icon"?

We spot RP's with a boat
We shout "STOP" with "Bail Out!"

So marking targets with Attack here is more realistic than the previously mentioned

No, the jets (in bf2) had this square around them, which your HUD used, to say ''Look! enemy vehicle, bomb the hell out of it!''.

Vehicles should automatically get this square (friendlies get the square with a cross in it) around them, so the gunner can see where any targets are.

Hotrod525 · Post by **Hotrod525** » 2007-11-01 19:40

'Xander[nl wrote:;521271']No, the jets (in bf2) had this square around them, which your HUD used, to say ''Look! enemy vehicle, bomb the hell out of it!''.

Vehicles should automatically get this square (friendlies get the square with a cross in it) around them, so the gunner can see where any targets are.

thats exactly what i mean

Waaah_Wah · Post by **Waaah_Wah** » 2007-11-01 19:56

You cant see the "square" when your on the MG or using the free look in a chopter.

Hotrod525 · Post by **Hotrod525** » 2007-11-03 18:59

just cross you're finger, hoping the Dev will think this a good idea

MadTommy · Post by **MadTommy** » 2007-11-03 20:45

The attack helis are feared enough in my opinion.

I'd only like to see this in the game IF it only became active when the tank, apc or AA had been spotted, using the comma rose, (Q), by a team mate. And had an active life of 2 minutes or something...

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-11-04 06:44

why? choppers iRL have radars that can detect them even when they are not spotted , this is the most real thing to a radar that can be maded in bf2 engine

Post by **Ninja2dan** » 2007-11-04 06:55

I hate naming a different mod on the PR forums, but I will do so for arguement sake. Using the AIX mod (single-player), you will see a target box around all ground units. This means troops as well, but for PR it should only be for manned vehicles. As mentioned above, this would simulate radar to some extent. It only works out to a set range, and vehicles hidden behind cover such as buildings lost their box until they appeared again.

Made straffing runs with the AH-6 much easier. And for those who think air is too powerful now, it's because AA isn't done properly yet. Hopefully AA will be addressed in the next update of PR, so adding this feature will be minimal. Besides, a real gunship such as Apache has thermal optics that PR lacks, so a real gunship is much more lethal than the PR versions anyways. Maybe have the target boxes turn off if the helo takes a set amount of damage, and must be repaired fully before such ability is available again?

Hotrod525 · Post by **Hotrod525** » 2007-11-04 16:37

Seriously PR Need that features !

lool

Hotrod525 · Post by **Hotrod525** » 2007-11-05 00:18

is it possible to have Dev statement please, i would like to know what you think about this.

Tikigod · Post by **Tikigod** » 2007-11-06 00:12

If something like this was put in PR I would want them all to be all open or filled boxes. (No IFF telling you instantly who is friendly and who is not)

A radar box showing you exactly who is enemy and who is friendly is not at all realistic.

Consider these real world examples (showing you trackign targets is not simple and easy):

Friendly-fire incident with Apache vs Light Armor Unit.
Note the confusion and the display of the guncam (there is no absolute IFF knowledge from AH-64 systems telling him to shoot right away)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8-wr8_qRBQ

A-10 Friendly-fire on British Units.
(No absolute IFF knowledge from A-10 systems)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV_16PdWnBo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFdJ4X_wWj0

Both A-10 and Apache have Radar and many other systems but, they don't all come to simple conclusion of kill this box don't kill this one.

I would prefer to see something more inaccurate. There is no immediate signal given to a pilot or gunner to kill or not kill a target (in a single sweep) Attacks take time to track and verify. You don't just go in and kill stuff that the systems are telling you might be an enemy.

One solution that might be interesting is to make a radar system view (as a 3rd weapon system for the gunner) This would have a solid radar cursor overlay (filled in box) that would completely cover a 3-D friendly or vehicle unit. This would allow the gunner to know where a unit is but not be able to visually identify it right away (since the target would be covered with a large solid green box). The gunner could then change the weapon to turn the radar cursor overlay off and try to visually ID the target using the normal gun site, tv video site, etc. (which wouldn't have these boxes.

There are times I think having radar boxes displayed would be rather annoying. I wouldn’t want to see them all the time in the gunner view.

Also, you have to consider the systems armor and other units have to counter the systems of the helicopter. If they can't be modeled then why accurately model the tracking systems for the helicopter?

Hotrod525 · Post by **Hotrod525** » 2007-11-29 15:24

IFF ( IDENTIFACATION FRIEND OR FOW ) WORK ONLY ON VEHICULE WHOS GOT THE IFF SYSTEM

But since US Army have devloped a "Linux Touch Screen platform" linked by Sat to all other's unit, that allowing USAF,USN, USAR,USMC to saw exactly what happen on the field live.

BTW modern helicopter have radar system capable of detecting Tank in any condition from many miles away.... FLIR and RADAR, they also got a RADAR detection, i mean you're aircraft can find radar easily due to fact radar is alwayz tranponding wave.
It work both side BTW.

Except for F22,F35 & TYPHOON using latest radar technologie's avoiding aircraft detection by he's own radar wave... but there again, i'm sure it will come a new radar system capable of finding those treat in the sky.

So to be back on topic, Add marker on sighting system would increase lethality of combat helicopter and it will increase realist too. So Still hoping seeing that change in 0.7

Army Technologies wrote: SENSORS OF AH-64D

The AH-64D Longbow Apache is equipped with the Northrop Grumman millimetre-wave Longbow radar. The Longbow fire control radar incorporates an integrated radar frequency interferometer for passive location and identification of radar-emitting threats. An advantage of millimetre wave is that it performs under poor-visibility conditions and is less sensitive to ground clutter. The short wavelength allows a very narrow beamwidth, which is resistant to countermeasures.

The Longbow Apache can effect an attack in 30 seconds. The radar dome is unmasked for a single radar scan and then remasked. The processors determine the location, speed and direction of travel of a maximum of 256 targets.

The Target Acquisition Designation Sight, TADS (AN/ASQ-170), and the Pilot Night Vision Sensor, PNVS (AN/AAQ-11), were developed by Lockheed Martin. The turret-mounted TADS provides direct-view optics, television and three-fields-of-view forward-looking infrared (FLIR) to carry out search, detection and recognition, and Litton laser rangefinder/designator. PNVS consists of a FLIR in a rotating turret located on the nose above the TADS. The image from the PNVS is displayed in the monocular eyepiece of the Honeywell Integrated Helmet And Display Sighting System, IHADSS, worn by the pilot and copilot/gunner.

Lockheed Martin has developed a new targeting and night vision system for the Apache, using second-generation long-wave infrared sensors with improved range and resolution. The new system is called Arrowhead and has a targeting FLIR with three fields of view, a dual field-of-view pilotage FLIR, a CCD TV camera, electronic zoom, target tracker and auto-boresight. Arrowhead entered production in December 2003 and the first unit was delivered to the US Army in May 2005. 704 US Army Apaches are to be equipped with Arrowhead by 2011.

The Apache is equipped with an electronic warfare suite consisting of: AN/APR-39A(V) radar warning receiver from Northrop Grumman (formerly Litton) and Lockheed Martin; Lockheed Martin AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometer Electronic Support target acquisition system; AN/ALQ-144 infra-red countermeasures set from BAE Systems IEWS (formerly Sanders, a Lockheed Martin company); AN/AVR-2 laser warning receiver from Goodrich (formerly Hughes Danbury Optical Systems then Raytheon); AN/ALQ-136(V) radar jammer developed by ITT; and chaff dispensers.

US Army Longbow Apaches were to be fitted with the ITT AN/ALQ-211 SIRCM (Suite of Integrated Radio Frequency Countermeasures) suite, however the availability of funding for this project is uncertain.

UK AH Mk 1 Apaches are fitted with BAE Systems Helicopter Integrated Defensive Aids Suite (HIDAS), also chosen by Kuwait and Greece. HIDAS, which includes the Sky Guardian 2000 radar warning receiver, entered service on the AH Mk 1 in July 2003.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/apache/

markonymous · Post by **markonymous** » 2007-11-29 19:48

Hotrod525 wrote:IFF ( IDENTIFACATION FRIEND OR FOW ) WORK ONLY ON VEHICULE WHOS GOT THE IFF SYSTEM

But since US Army have devloped a "Linux Touch Screen platform" linked by Sat to all other's unit, that allowing USAF,USN, USAR,USMC to saw exactly what happen on the field live.

BTW modern helicopter have radar system capable of detecting Tank in any condition from many miles away.... FLIR and RADAR, they also got a RADAR detection, i mean you're aircraft can find radar easily due to fact radar is alwayz tranponding wave.
It work both side BTW.

Except for F22,F35 & TYPHOON using latest radar technologie's avoiding aircraft detection by he's own radar wave... but there again, i'm sure it will come a new radar system capable of finding those treat in the sky.

So to be back on topic, Add marker on sighting system would increase lethality of combat helicopter and it will increase realist too. So Still hoping seeing that change in 0.7

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/apache/

exactly the modern radar systems can detect,identify, evaluate threat, and launch an attack within less then 10 sec. This can be done from over 5 miles away.

edit: it identifies all vehicles (up to 20) and classifies them as friend or foe by make.

Hotrod525 · Post by **Hotrod525** » 2007-11-29 20:25

markonymous wrote:exactly the modern radar systems can detect,identify, evaluate threat, and launch an attack within less then 10 sec. This can be done from over 5 miles away.

edit: it identifies all vehicles (up to 20) and classifies them as friend or foe by make.

http://dsc.discovery.com/video/?playerI ... =230282648

if you watch the clip you will see that the apache in PR isnt anywhere close to realistic not even remotely.

youre clip show me a survivor in the jungle

BTW AH64 can identifie 256 targets.

markonymous · Post by **markonymous** » 2007-11-29 21:05

Hotrod525 wrote:youre clip show me a survivor in the jungle

BTW AH64 can identifie 256 targets.

nopes identify and prioritize only 16 total identifying capacity 128

Hotrod525 · Post by **Hotrod525** » 2007-11-30 01:21

markonymous wrote:nopes identify and prioritize only 16 total identifying capacity 128

i trust more army technologies