Inrease rate of ticket bleed + preventin baserape

[Doc_Frank]

There's nothing to congratulate for in an underhanded baserape IMHO. I think you're wrong in your point where you say camping the mosque is a valid tactic. Why don't they stalk the palace? Blow the cars up and stuff. If you check the map at the mosque you can see a forbidding sign upon the insurgent flag. In my reading that gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling cause it's safe when I play insurgents, and a taboo when I'm a Brit. Guarding the exit is alright. But basecamping... where is the dignity?

[Threedroogs]

blowing up the bridges around the palace should be the first thing the UK does. this renders ALL vehicles worthless. if there is any enemy contact during this mission, the UK should shoot them.

i am not saying that the UK forces should sit under or on top of the mosque. there are plenty of rooftops nearby that provide a much better vantage point.

this is war, bro...

in order for my main base to be raped, the enemy has to have outmaneuvered my squad. i am not trying to toot my own horn here, but the enemy has to be organized and effective to rape my main base. my squad simply wont let it happen. if it does happen, i congratulate the other team and get ready for the next round.

[Doc_Frank]

[I screwed the posts up a bit, coz my net is half dead atm, deleting the last post.]

My last reflection on your comment before we can get to some sort of concordia is that this is war, a virtual one with certain rules. I respect the fellow gamers and I never try to gain advantage by using backdoors and the opponent's belief in the rules. Meanwhile I have no tolerance for such an ignorant behaviour as the opposite. My suggestion would be used against this type is implemented.

[Waaah_Wah]

Those baseraping Brits might have been looking for cashes... Sometimes you have to check at the Palace and Mosque you know...

[Waaah_Wah]

This bright suggestion is somewhat ignorant...

OK, I get spawnkilled twice, I spawn in a tactically disadvantaged place the third time, whatever. Somebody else has the same problems, have to make the same steps, whatever again... and again. Finally the spawnkiller succesfully made the enemy evacuate the mainbase. Is that what you have in mind?

When you spawn there, you get killed immidiately. Now how the f*ck can you find a more "tactically disadvantaged" place to spawn, than a place with alot of enemys around it???

[Doc_Frank]

Forum discussions often remind me of deaf people's conversation...

The next time you see a cache on the mosque's square let me know and you can call me whatever you want to.

If you would read my short summary, you'd realise that I didn't even hissed a word about instant killing. And as an uncapturable base, camping it is against the rules. Thus it should be always be a secure spawnpoint. This is the "f*cking" way to give up tactical advantage at spawning.

Any more remarks or questions by you Wah, should be sent by private message plz, I'm still trying to get some feedback from the DEVs on my initial suggestion, or another solution.

[Threedroogs]

the problem, guerilla, is that you expect to be allowed to spawn into enemy controlled territory. this isnt going to happen and shouldnt happen. you complained about running like a lemming to die nine times in a row in the same way and then blamed the people who killed you for spoiling your game time. i am sorry, but that is total BS. stop worrying about what other people are doing on the battlefield and get yourself straight. are you leading a squad? are you always playing with your squad (i am not talking shit, just asking)? the shit i do in-game takes the full 6 people, at all times. without my full squad doing exactly what i need them to do, i cant get anything done.

everything you are complaining about is already taken care of with in-game mechanics.

[Threedroogs]

as far as your suggestion for auto killing people...i think that's a terrible idea. it's completely unnessessary.

and the devs have already added the ring of death to every base they wanted to. you already have your answer, guerilla.

[Doom721]

I think baserape should be allowed, get over it and kill them.

Assets, commanders, vehicles, infantry - those who are baseraping "Effectively" are helping your team, but hurting the battle front - all depends on how effective they are.

Its a choice of tactics - go for the assets/vehicles/infantry to put the enemy into disarray ( Or into a whiny admin kick-fest )

OR to go for the current battlefront either defending or attacking

Baserape is fine, it is a tactic, it is not a glitch, it is part of the BF2 engine GET OVER IT.

As for increased ticket bleed, im glad fuzzhead divulged some info on spawn points being farther away, and maps without bleed getting it.

[Dunehunter]

To be honest, I think that camping the Mosque is a pretty poor tactic for the Brits. It's not a place I would like to be in for extended times, in the middle of the city with way too many places to be attacked from.

[fuzzhead]

yea everytime i played basrah and brits were inside the mosque area, it was very easy to kill them.

you have grappling civilians you can go anywhere around the mosque and literally dozens and dozens of spawnpoints there... the brits dont really stand a chance at mosque... unless your a lone guy spawning in and just getting killed and no one helps you.

[Doc_Frank]

Actually I was a lone squad (couldn't even grab a civil kit). Two other squads were filled and one was locked. We had one spawnpoint in the Western village and one car left at the palace, but as a single-man squad I didn't want to take that away from the two big ones. I thougt I get myself a pkm and walk to a dangered cache to defend. The Brits were all over the walls, I got one camper who got really greedy, laid next to the pick-ups and tried to kill the insurgents who were trying to get a lousy Nagant or RPG. That Brit nicked a PKM as a matter of fact. A second one (lone l33t specops) guarded the Northern exit of the mosque from a "house of pain". Another guy -- who's name I won't tell in public since I didn't get the screenshot -- admitted that "yeah I was there but I got bored of killing you there" or something like this. And his whole team didn't care at all about him.

So if the majority thinks that camping the mosque's square is okay, then I hope that mainbase flag will be removed soon. It's rather controversial right now. That's the ins' main turf, but "securing" it is fine? Lots of people think that means a safe stronghold. On the other hand, it's rather easy to get intelligence points from an unsuspecting SL in the middle of the square...

[Outlawz7]

Remove the ladders from neighboring buildings around the Mosque.
I can tell a difference, when there's a squad looking for cache at Mosque or just some random retard with a scope inflating his ego with spawn killing the Insurgents.

And whoever said "don't spawn on mosque", I'm asking you then, where to spawn at, if all the spawn cars are at the palace and you can't drive them over the bridges, spawning at leveled Village will just get you sniped, since after 1 hour of Basrah, there's little left of the destroyable houses and Mosque is being spawn camped? The island, where you're good as dead as you can't do anything there?

Also, the mosque should have the ammo caches removed, a some sort of market or something added in front of it, so it isn't so bare and get a dome of death.

IRL the coalition forces are NOT allowed near or into mosques, as it's a sacred building and IRL Insurgents can stockpile ammo and weapons in them as much as they want and the U.S. Army/Marines/British Forces can't do anything about it than intercept them, when they are outside the mosques.

Also, the reason Mosque in Basrah is the Ins main, is because the above: IRL Insurgents do have mosques as their outposts or strongholds.

[Artnez[US]]

Threedroogs, a-men. a-men. aaaaaaaaaa-men.

Absolutely right on.

And to Guerilla_Frank:

Some players are always looking for an excuse to make things easier for them. Just the fact that they are respawning is already "unrealistic".. magically appearing out of nowhere? Yea, that's realism for you. The unrealistic argument just isn't going to fly here.

Consider the spawn points like LZ (Landing Zones) for airborne troops.

Sure, it's a good LZ -- plenty of space and a great strategic location. But it's full of enemies. What do you do? Drop on the LZ or secure it first?

You secure it first by attacking from a different direction.

I too have been playing since .3 I have never had a problem with base raping... EVER.

If my team was so terrible that we got pushed all the way back to main and couldn't fight back against the enemy, I sucked it up and tried to break free of their hold. Sometimes we did, sometimes we didn't.

If I spawned in a place where I got instantly killed, here's what happens:

I say in VOIP: "Do not spawn at X location. Repeat, do not spawn at X location, it's swarming with hostiles".

My squad says: "Roger, spawning somewhere else at X location."

That's it! That's all you have to do.

Do you want your spawn point back, go fight for it! If I'm the squad leader:

I say in VOIP: "Alright guys, we're going to clear out the area round our spawn point. Let's move in from the East and hit them from behind, spawn at the other spawn car north east of the contested spawn."

90% of the time we move in and kill all enemies, re-securing the spawn point -- mission success.

And another thing you should know:

There will always be times when someone has an easy kill you. Skill is not just about aim or "gaming skill" (that's BF2 talk). Skill is about strategy and tactics just as much.

If you define your skill level by how well you shoot the weapons in-game, you need a lesson in skill because shooting in game is extremely easy. Any noob can get a headshot from a distance - that does not define skill.

Skill in PR is about getting the drop on the enemy by outflanking them or catching them by surprise and them ripping them to shreds.

If a Brit squad was able to make it all the way to Mosque and maintain their force strength there.. then they have the right to rip you to pieces as you spawn. You don't like it? Spawn somewhere else and attack them from behind.. you already know where they are man!

Saying something is "cheap" is something you can do in vBF2, not in PR.

Sure, there have been times when my entire team was getting completely annihilated. There were times when my squad rally point was under attack and people were killing as we spawned. All you do is go in to VOIP and let your squad mates know that the rally point is under fire and they will get killed if they spawn on it.

In PR there is a counter to everything.

If the other team is wasting their time "camping a spawn", it means they aren't busy with their mission, which means they will lose the round in the end.

Start looking at things from the perspective of what matters to the team, not about your personal 1337ness and make sure to call someone out as a "cheap player" to make yourself feel better.

If your spawn point is in the center of the city (Mosque) and all of your caches are outside of the city (desert), get to defending other strategic parts of the map.

If you have absolutely no choice than to spawn on a flag that is getting hit by enemy troops, your team has already screwed up bigtime and your paying the price.

I'm really getting tired of players being such hypocrites. If you want reality mod, you need to come to grips with the fact that in real life things have consequences. In real life, if you drink too much you will become an alcoholic. If your team cannot rally up and take care of business, they will get crushed and embarrassed by the enemy. The difference between you and me is that I look for what I did wrong to lose and you look for what the other team did to force your loss - because you're just that good that they must have used cheap tactics.

End.

[Waaah_Wah]

^^Amen

[Doc_Frank]

What a sentence, Padre! I had the strength to read it through...

Did you see the topic is about Al Basrah's non-capturable main base? Or you just like to post about your flashes and think mighty wise doing so? When did you see me playing? And then: where are your accustaions about my personality and gamestyle from? I find them most offensive. So mind your peculiar statements and ideas considering me the next time you address me with your opinion!

Otherwise I don't want to descend to your arguing level, so I just skip to reason -- although I could.

[Deadfast]

Artnez, saying that you've never seen baserape in PR since .3 makes me wonder what maps and how often you play.
I'm playing since .5, yet I had seen enough of "poor" things - baserape, bunnyhopping, teamkilling, general player stupidity and so on.

Have you ever played Al Kufrah Oilfield ?
You should really take a look on usual rounds there. If one team is too weak, he will get pushed all the way to their main. OK, that's fair, but what's not fair is the fact that the opposing team instead of taking the last flag just sits on the hills with tanks and just blows up anything that spawns there, no matter if it's a vehicle or a player.
I have met with the mosque camping tactics, actually even few days ago. The problem is, that you don't need half of team there. One "1337er" is enough. I got killed 3 times in a row there. Spawn at palace ? Whoops, bridges destroyed and I'm not here for a Basrah marathon. Village ? Crawling with Warriors. So I spawned at mosque to get myself an RPG to help out with the IFVs. I couldn't even get one because each time I got shot by a freaking sniper. When I wanted to get him from behind I got nailed by a squad (OK, they were of for caches) and the third time I got show by the sniper again...

[Waaah_Wah]

He didnt say that he haven seen baserape, he said that he dont any problems with it. And neither do i. The only time i've been bothered by baserape is when we had a tank baseraping our main at Kashan and we didnt have any HATs there, and couldnt get to the TOW. I had to kill the guy with a Stinger ffs... Took me a while

[Artnez[US]]

Artnez, saying that you've never seen baserape in PR since .3 makes me wonder what maps and how often you play.
I'm playing since .5, yet I had seen enough of "poor" things - baserape, bunnyhopping, teamkilling, general player stupidity and so on.

I never said that I have never seen baseraping.

What I did say is I never had a problem with base raping.

Have you ever played Al Kufrah Oilfield ?
You should really take a look on usual rounds there. If one team is too weak, he will get pushed all the way to their main. OK, that's fair, but what's not fair is the fact that the opposing team instead of taking the last flag just sits on the hills with tanks and just blows up anything that spawns there, no matter if it's a vehicle or a player.

I've actually had this happen a few times and once we were able to break out of it. The trick was to sneak a squad to the east (which failed miserably a bunch of times but eventually they got through) and to keep popping smoke like mad so the enemy tanks will have trouble killing us.

I personally enjoy trying to break out of that hold. If I get killed 5 times in a row, each time I die, I bring up the minimap, put my fingers to my chin and think really hard about what to do to get out of it.

I have met with the mosque camping tactics, actually even few days ago. The problem is, that you don't need half of team there. One "1337er" is enough. I got killed 3 times in a row there. Spawn at palace ? Whoops, bridges destroyed and I'm not here for a Basrah marathon. Village ? Crawling with Warriors. So I spawned at mosque to get myself an RPG to help out with the IFVs. I couldn't even get one because each time I got shot by a freaking sniper. When I wanted to get him from behind I got nailed by a squad (OK, they were of for caches) and the third time I got show by the sniper again...

This means the team you were playing was doing an excellent job at keeping you guys busy. Frankly, what you explain is extremely rare for me, but then again I usually make a teamwork squad in the beginning of the round and we're always on top of things so something like this could never happen.

Where was your squad during all of this? Ultimately you won't be able to do anything about this yourself, you need a squad full of friendlies.

In my case, me (as the squadleader) or my squadleader would spawn at the island and head on foot towards the mosque. We would send a point man forward about 20 meters in case we run into heavy weapons. If he goes down, we'll stay silent and move around the threat.

Once we get to the mosque the SL takes position inside an arbitrary building that is out of the way. The squad keeps spawning on him and attacking until mosque perimeter is clear.

There, you just created a spawn point, but it takes extra effort.

In the case that your assault fails and your SL's location is compromised, you need to continue down the same thought process - be quick and be creative. Have the SL fall back immediately. You see, people spawn very rarely PR as you know... which means that camping a spawn could get kind of boring sometimes. This plays on the enemy's psychology quite well because when they see 4-5 insurgents running around (and knowing they have a rally point to spawn on nearby) they will run after you. Before you know it, you'll have an entire enemy squad or more giving you a frontal assault.

At that point, your mission is a success as well because they lost their focus from Mosque. Once one of your guys dies, have him spawn at mosque while the rest spawn on you. That lone guy at mosque can grab an RPG and fall back on your location. Now you have an RPG.

While all of this is happening, other squads in your team are doing something too.

I understand your frustration, I really do. Just try funnel that frustration into finding a way to win.

I suggest you play on the TacticalGamers server if you don't already. I play on that server religiously and more often than not these guys are very serious about tactical gameplay there. (There are occasional rough days, but hey, it happens ).

[Artnez[US]]

What a sentence, Padre! I had the strength to read it through...

Did you see the topic is about Al Basrah's non-capturable main base?

A quote from the original post:

2)Make all bases uncapturable and place deadzones in to every meeting engagement map (like the ones in Insurgency maps,where Ins. cant move beyond some grids else they die)


Benefits:
This will remove baserape out of the game

I take it your attention to detail on the forum is just as good as it is in-game good sir.

Or you just like to post about your flashes and think mighty wise doing so? When did you see me playing? And then: where are your accustaions about my personality and gamestyle from? I find them most offensive. So mind your peculiar statements and ideas considering me the next time you address me with your opinion!

Hm. This is not on topic.

Otherwise I don't want to descend to your arguing level, so I just skip to reason -- although I could.

You've descended worse. You're completely off topic now

And so am I :/