Distinguishing players upon rank

Stargun · Post by **Stargun** » 2006-01-14 21:08

I already mentioned this in a different thread (sniper rifles), i hope this thing is feasible.

IRL the snipers're used for eliminating VERY IMPORTANT TARGETS ONLY. They're not wasted for killing a single soldier. But for killing a squad leader, or even the commander can be very useful. If you kill the squad leader, then the squad will loose it's mobile spawn point at the important location. The only problem how can you distinguish the squad leader from the rest of the squad?! I think that could be some kind of distinguishing feature of the commander and the squad leaders (i.e. slightly different color of the helmet).

The uniform of the soldiers (at least the helmet) changes when a soldier becomes the pilot or the gunner of an aircraft or chopper. Maybe this can be used for giving visual aids for distinguishing soldiers with different ranks.

Off course any visual aid will make the life of squad leaders and the commander much more difficult, simply they'll be the primary targets of the enemy - but that's why they should always be in the vicinity of the rest of the squad.

Any ideas?

Post by **UK_Force** » 2006-01-14 21:24

I dont think this would really add to "realism", as most officers do blend in with their soldiers - However there are suttle differences, ie most British officers carry a sidearm, and their dress sense is a little "different" .......... very very suttle though - you would need to be on top of them to notice ...... or a "sniper" with good scopes.

Sure this would make interesting play though .......... and a definate "target" for sf / snipers !!!

An interesting thought like that though would be to have a map/strategy in game where a VIP (the principle) has to be escourted from point A to point B, this VIP could be made to look totally different. One team escourts - while one has to "take him out".

Would have to be well balanced though ?

DangChang · Post by **DangChang** » 2006-01-14 21:59

Right now the squad leader has no more visual aid than the soldiers he "commands", so that won't make a difference. Good commanders will hide somewhere to not get killed.

Post by **UK_Force** » 2006-01-14 23:05

DangChang wrote:Right now the squad leader has no more visual aid than the soldiers he "commands", so that won't make a difference. Good commanders will hide somewhere to not get killed.

Agreed a commander would hide well - however he should really be sat in a command bunker or HQ type enviroment ????? ....... this could be brought into play with the "scanner" type caravan - however it automatically moves around the battlefield behind the "main body" - as in reality.

As for the Squad Leader he will not in reality have more "visual aid" than ANY of his soldiers? As a squad the kit is distributed evenly - if anything the lead man - and/or 2ic get more? Things are kept simple for the squad leader - as he is the "thinker" of the group - he makes the decisions, giving him all the "gear" - would be a waste ?

F.N.G. · Post by **F.N.G.** » 2006-01-14 23:33

In the field, Marines don't wear rank insignia or any other indicator of status, to avoid being targeted by snipers. We don't even salute. (unless you are a pissed off corporal doing a sniper check to your Plt. CO. :twisted

Post by **UK_Force** » 2006-01-14 23:42

F.N.G. wrote:In the field, Marines don't wear rank insignia or any other indicator of status, to avoid being targeted by snipers. We don't even salute. (unless you are a pissed off corporal doing a sniper check to your Plt. CO. :twisted

Agreed 100% , however Brits (Not all of them, just the pompas ones) sometimes like that "salute" feeling which can be their downfall?

Beckwith · Post by **Beckwith** » 2006-01-15 03:25

The real rank insignias are so small and hidden so well that it would be impossible for a sniper to notice them especially in BF2 the way scopes are and all. Besides, in real life they don everything they can to make it harder for snipers to tell whose an officer with the subdued rank badges.

Tom#13 · Post by **Tom#13** » 2006-01-15 03:38

just go for the target with the most important weapon, the medic, the machinegunner, AT etc decide which one is more important to take out

Ugly Duck · Post by **Ugly Duck** » 2006-01-15 03:40

I'd think that the best way to pick out a soldier with authority on the modern battlefield would be through his actions. If someone is giving orders or talking on a radio that would be the person to shoot. Maybe if squad leaders could be given small hand motions to go along with their commands this would be handy. Of course unless it's a map like the one UK Force suggested, an escort type map, that sniper kits should be removed and replaced by a Designated Marksman.

ir0nside · Post by **ir0nside** » 2006-01-15 05:36

Stargun wrote:IRL the snipers're used for eliminating VERY IMPORTANT TARGETS ONLY.

You're incorrect. Snipers are utilized a support element more often than not. They do everything from destroying field equipment, to optics on tanks, to simply being allowed to destroy morale in a region for a period. People have this gross misconception of the role of a Sniper in modern warfare.. one which paints them as an assassin.

If only it were so simple.

USAF-Marshall · Post by **USAF-Marshall** » 2006-01-15 06:28

Stargun wrote:I already mentioned this in a different thread (sniper rifles), i hope this thing is feasible.

IRL the snipers're used for eliminating VERY IMPORTANT TARGETS ONLY. They're not wasted for killing a single soldier. But for killing a squad leader, or even the commander can be very useful. If you kill the squad leader, then the squad will loose it's mobile spawn point at the important location. The only problem how can you distinguish the squad leader from the rest of the squad?! I think that could be some kind of distinguishing feature of the commander and the squad leaders (i.e. slightly different color of the helmet).

The uniform of the soldiers (at least the helmet) changes when a soldier becomes the pilot or the gunner of an aircraft or chopper. Maybe this can be used for giving visual aids for distinguishing soldiers with different ranks.

Off course any visual aid will make the life of squad leaders and the commander much more difficult, simply they'll be the primary targets of the enemy - but that's why they should always be in the vicinity of the rest of the squad.

Any ideas?

You are forgetting one KEY aspect of the Sniper in the field. I play as sniper all the time and I know that in the game, as well as RL, snipers are the scouts of the infantry units. They are the ones, behind the lines, gathering intel while the rest of the troops fight the battles on the front lines. Snipers in concealed locations is a good thing to have when the UAV is somewhere else or unusable and the sniper can see what is going on. A UAV will tell you where people are, a sniper will tell you what class, what they are doing, where exactly they are hiding....

Beckwith · Post by **Beckwith** » 2006-01-15 08:19

'[R-PUB wrote:ir0nside']You're incorrect. Snipers are utilized a support element more often than not. They do everything from destroying field equipment, to optics on tanks, to simply being allowed to destroy morale in a region for a period. People have this gross misconception of the role of a Sniper in modern warfare.. one which paints them as an assassin.

If only it were so simple.

thats also a very good point, airports are also places where they cause damage think about it a .338 round into the right part of an jet and its out of commision for a while

Stargun · Post by **Stargun** » 2006-01-15 11:20

Ugly Duck wrote:I'd think that the best way to pick out a soldier with authority on the modern battlefield would be through his actions. If someone is giving orders or talking on a radio that would be the person to shoot. Maybe if squad leaders could be given small hand motions to go along with their commands this would be handy.

That was my first idea also, but it seemed much more complicated, than simple colored visual aids. Unfortunately the game in BF2 is faster than that, no one will look for his squad leader's gestures, but if someone can code it, I'll be very happy to use that.

Beckwith wrote:thats also a very good point, airports are also places where they cause damage think about it a .338 round into the right part of an jet and its out of commision for a while

Come on guys!!!
Yes I know, that the M95 Barrett SHOULD kill an airplane's or chopper's engine, or a tank periscope with one certain shot. If you think, that it's feasible to define such a small but vulnerable hit areas on these vehicles, then it's awesome.
But as long, as it takes more than one shot with that "handgun" to kill even an armored soldier (because the programmes thought, that the M24 with 7,62x51 mm ammo can make the same damage, as the M95 with .50 BMG - only the M95 can have damage on the vehicles - WTF?!

), I think the main role (where the sniper can use his gun) of the sniper is to shoot down soldiers.

I think these suggestions which are closely related to the sniper rifles should go to the appropriate thread (Sniper rifles).

In this tread we should try to focus on distinguishing the soldiers.

P.S.: I liked the idea of the VIP scenario (like in CS

). That would be FUN!

F.N.G. · Post by **F.N.G.** » 2006-01-15 13:43

Lets face the facts. In BF2, no one looks for anything while sniping except, any target. If someone is there they get shot at. no one waits for the right person to shoot at. If there is more than one person, they just kill the guy that isn't moving as much. This game moves too fast for specific targeting by snipers. It's a nice thought, but wasted, in my opinion.

I'm probably going to start hearing all these stories of the sniper that doesn't care about kills and plays for the team, but I don't buy it. Maybe 1 out of the million snipers out there are doing this and I have yet to see it. They don't have time to spot out targets, when they are getting all their points from their claymore protected perch. (I am an advocate for dropping claymores from sniper kits as well)

I do like the VIP idea though. I wonder how well that would play in the BF2. Could go either way.

Stargun · Post by **Stargun** » 2006-01-15 14:43

F.N.G. wrote:Lets face the facts. In BF2, no one looks for anything while sniping except, any target. If someone is there they get shot at. no one waits for the right person to shoot at. If there is more than one person, they just kill the guy that isn't moving as much.

You're right. But what if you can DISTINGUISH the squad leaders from the rest of the squad?
Imagine, that you see 5 incoming soldiers through your scope, with one wearing a red cap.
He must be the squad leader! In that case even if he's the most moving target which is the hardest to shoot, I'll try to hunt HIM down, because it's so important! If we make using the sniper rifles harder (see Sniper Rifles thread), you can count with only ONE SHOT, so you have to choose your target carefully.

If you could even get more score on shooting officers, then this would be obvious - even for the "score-oriented" people - to choose the best target. (Let me tell you, I'm NOT score oriented

)

I know that IRL no one would be stupid to wear a red cap on the battlefield to call extra attention on himself. But this would be another point to make the life harder (and the responsibility higher) for the squad leaders. A squad leader should know, that he's very important (because of the mobile spawn point he gives for the squad), much more important then he should be the first in the row running toward the next target. He should keep himself off the front line, in the safer vicinity of his squad, while he SENDS OUT assault and support soldiers to the front line.

The squad leader's most important task is to STAY ALIVE to be able to give commands and provide the spawn point for his squad.

Tom#13 wrote:just go for the target with the most important weapon, the medic, the machinegunner, AT etc decide which one is more important to take out

By the way: what about medics IRL? Will I be a good and honorable soldier, if I shoot the enemy's soldier wearing a big red cross on his helmet while he's trying to save the life of his buddies?

I don't think so... In the game at least we should give LESS score for shooting a medic (or no score at all, it's already a big disavantage for the enemy team that they're losing a medic).

beta · Post by **beta** » 2006-01-15 16:00

If I saw 5 troops through the scope I would aim for the medic ... if you shoot the SL, the medic will just zap him back to life

By the way: what about medics IRL?

Since IRL defribulators most certainly cannot magically heal a critically wounded soldier and said critically wounded soldier won't be getting up to shoot you in the face any time soon, medics don't seem to be as much of a threat IRL ...

F.N.G. · Post by **F.N.G.** » 2006-01-15 16:10

RED HELMETS!?!? I think thats a far stretch. As you stated, No one is stupid enough to wear a red cap onto the battlefield. And also was stated earlier, that Marines don't wear anything to distinguish them from regular troops in combat or training. Setting them apart isn't very realistic at all. I also have my doubts of snipers changing their tactics to benifit the team.

Snipers in BF2 have always been about the lone wolf player that has no real interest in working with the team. They are the camping class. They find a perch and snipe away until they run out of ammo or get killed. And the dumb ones go right back where they were and the half smart ones find an new spot to camp.

I have a new suggestion for the sniper kit: First we change the class name to scout/Camper and Give them a bullet proof Winnabego with all the trim, to make them comfy while they go camping. LOL Why not give them the red helmets, while we're at it. This is fun. We should start a "Sniper Bashing" thread. Pee drinkers*, anyway.

As you can see I have a disdane for the camping/Pee drinker* class. No teamwork = no respect, in my book. If you could find a way to make the sniper more team oriented, then I may change my mind. Until then...snipers drink their own pee.*

* The reason they drink their own pee, is because no one will bring them water and they don't want to leave their nice little safe spot, to help the team effort. (besides... they've claymored themselves into a corner, so to speak) Aaaaaaaaahahaha. I kill me.

cap`canabis · Post by **cap`canabis** » 2006-01-15 16:49

distinguishing the enemy can be done by observing. (and since the sniper rifle currently doesn't actually hit anything that's what a sniper should do *sic)

you see 'one' guy and then another guy spawn next to him, then remember the 'one' guy is the squad leader. now look for the guy with that's reviving the dead guys, he's the medic. I would shoot him first, then the 'one' guy.

in case you die before you can get close enough to shoot, tell your mates "the <insert kit/class here> is the squad leader" (granted they can also change squad leaders)

doesn't sound realistic to have distinguishing markers on the enemy squad leaders or commander, as stated. It would just help the enemy.

i'm not too familiar with winnebagos but i have seen some 'team' snipers... but yes it's true most of them are pee drinkers.

F.N.G. · Post by **F.N.G.** » 2006-01-15 16:59

A Winnabego is a brand name for a large recreational vehicle used for cross country trips and camping. It has a shower, toilet, kitchen TV, Beds. You name it, they've put it in a Winnabego. It's like a home on wheels. All of the expensive ones look better than my apartment, and bigger too.

{GD}Snake13 · Post by **{GD}Snake13** » 2006-01-15 22:07

Snipers are not assasins, they are also used to extend the range of an rifle (platoon?) in an engagement. Granted Designated marksmen are more common in this role, but if you had a sniper attached to your group you'd be damn sure that would use them too.