Sniper rifles

Post by **Evilhomer** » 2006-01-15 21:50

Thats probably the easier option, I don't know whether it's possible to change the elevation, as BF2 can only change the innacuracy of a weapon, not its depression.

Nerfing the role to just having a knife, rifle and range finder monocular/binocular is a good idea though!

F.N.G. · Post by **F.N.G.** » 2006-01-15 22:02

Woohoo!

...*runs for cover as sniper fire whizzes by* Aaaaaaaahhhh!!!

I hope this makes everyone happy. The snipers get their gun back and the rest of us don't have to worry about the Assault/sniper kit anymore. (Not saying that this is set in stone or anything)

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-01-15 22:07

F.N.G. wrote:Sniper Load-out
knife
Rifle w/ accurate ammo load.
Range finder binos

And a pistol, if it realistically is issued. I can't remember seeing a scout/sniper ever carry a pistol. I know his spotter carries an M16.

From the photos I have seen of USMC sniper teams in Iraq and Afghanistan, the sniper carries a sidearm in addition to the M40A1/A3.

Scout-Sniper Team Leader: right thigh, drop-leg holster.

Scout Sniper (center): drop-leg thigh holster.

Scout-Sniper team: sniper (left) has hip holster.

Scout-Sniper observer: right thigh, drop-leg holster.

Scout-Sniper team: sniper (right) has what appears to be a drop-leg holster on left thigh. He also seems to have a rifle on his back, the only authentic photo I've seen of a sniper doing so, but it is not happening in this mod.

And from what I have read, pistol qualification is also part of the Scout-Sniper Basic Course and the SOTG Urban Sniper Course.

Stargun · Post by **Stargun** » 2006-01-15 22:10

Good, we're almost on the track.

I don't know about the difference of the rife scope scale in the different distance ranges, but te simplest solution would be changing the HUD - the scale itself - based on the elevation setting.

IMHO the difference between the closest and the farthest setting could be around let's say 1,5-2 centimeters maximum measure of the deviation of the center of the crosshair. What if we just move the crosshair up and down according to the elevation setting and leave the bullet trajectory as is? Then the center of the crosshair won't be in the center of the screen, but who cares?
The bullet drop is already implemented in the game engine as far as I know, maybe it can be set to a given amount also. Off course if the bullet drop is NOT already implemented then this can be very hard - if not impossible - to solve.

USAF-Marshall · Post by **USAF-Marshall** » 2006-01-15 23:12

F.N.G. wrote:I say just take away their claymores and frags and do that click thing that was suggested with the different fire modes for elevation changes.

I say, take away their claymores, because, Why reward a sniper for getting caught. That's what happens. Every time you catch a sniper in a spot for too long he has his claymores set up and he gets kills for blowing you up, when he was the dumbass that stayed there too long and got found. Take his camping utensils away and make him what he is. A person that fears getting found and moves every once in awhile, like he should, or dies. And who the hell has proximity detonated claymores, anyway? Come on.

And take his frags, because, I've never seen a sniper with frags, and they are not assault troops. If the enemy is close enough for a sniper to use frags, then the sniper dun F**ked up. Make the snipers role real, if your gonna give him godlike accuracy.

Sniper Load-out
knife
Rifle w/ accurate ammo load.
Range finder binos

And a pistol, if it realistically is issued. I can't remember seeing a scout/sniper ever carry a pistol. I know his spotter carries an M16.

This would limit the kits, mainly to the people that want to put forth the effort to be a real sniper. And limit the stupidity normally associated with sniper kits. And screw that suppressor garbage, too. It's hard enough finding a sniper with all that gunfire.

Okay, tell me of one sniper team who wouldnt take something for protection. Snipers in Iraq and Afghanistan right now DO carry claymores. They are Clacker or Trip Wire fused so that nobody does come up behind them. If you take their Claymores it is like giving a guy an M16/M203 with 1 clip of ammo, no grenades, Body armor, nothing. And BTW. Almost every soldier carries a Side-Arm with them. Learn how stuff works before you say how it is.

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-01-15 23:36

Definately take his frags, and probably take his claymore. If you don't take his claymore, make it a remote instead of proximity detonation until/unless actual in-game tripwires are developed.

BULLET DROP FOR SNIPER RIFLES.

BF2 Vanilla tank shells had bullet drop. Find what made those bullets drop and put them on the sniper/designated marksman rifle rounds. I think the only reason why all bullets do not drop is to keep the CPU's from frying up on physics calculations from automatic weapons, but the tank shell drop proves that basic parabolic projectile flight is possible. After making the rounds drop, the next step is to rework the scope images so they're ticked off for ranges. The M24 uses a variable-zoom scope... and it sucks to be the M24 scope, because now they're using something ticked off for ranges. Sorry real-world M24 snipers.

Stargun · Post by **Stargun** » 2006-01-15 23:40

OK guys I agree, but what about the sniper *RIFLES* (aiming, crosshair, bullet drop, "wave" etc.)?

Someone can open a new thread on the ideas about the SNIPER CLASS as well, but here we're trying to solve the RIFLE part.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-15 23:43

I know alot of people aren't going to like this but the more I read of 'take this away take that away' instead of nerfing a weapon, I think that limiting a team to 2-3 snipers is the way to go. That way they get everything they should have, without having an awful weapon.

What about TKers? That's what the votekick button's for.

What about people who want to try the kits, wont they be turned off by this? They can always try them in singleplayer and then in multiplayer unfortunately they'll have to wait their turn like everyone else.

I realize a few people disagree on this but given the choice between having a nerfed weapon, a limited kit, and waiting for a chance to be a sniper. I'll take waiting.

When full PR comes out I would strongly suggest a pickup kit instead of a selectable class.

Either way, Stargun's right, lets get down to talking about the rifles. the need more accuract and more recoil and whatever the necessary bullet drop would be.

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-01-15 23:50

Sans grenades, claymores and (Gasp, the pistol), nobody will be a sniper unless they intend to use the rifle.

Jacking in tank-shell bullet drop, nobody will use the sniper rifle unless they knew how to judge ranges and adjust on a gradient.

Otherwise, we get people using the sniper kit to be an OMGZ STELTH MINE LAYAR AND GRENAD MAN!

Limited kits are not the way to go. Limited killing power and scoring ability outside of your intended combat role, especially for such a specialized kit as Sniper, is.

Tom#13 · Post by **Tom#13** » 2006-01-15 23:53

never mind
pleas delete

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-15 23:59

As eddie said he has pictures of snipers carrying pistols. I don't mind them losing the claymore cause if you're smart you have someone watching your back.

But if you give them the accurate, powerful rifle back (which should be done) without limiting how many of them there can be (ehhh?) then they won't need grenades, pistols claymores or grenades because no one will move. Movement and assault will mean death by way of 10 sniper rounds (though only one counts) into your body/walking corpse.

Give them whatever they realistically carry. Use bullet drop if possible. And make it a 2 sniper limit on a 16, 3-4 on a 32 and 4-5 on 64. Otherwise it turns into a sniper war.

F.N.G. · Post by **F.N.G.** » 2006-01-16 03:34

So give em a damn pistol. I just said, I didn't remember them carrying one. And not ALL troops carry a pistol. That's rediculous.

Give them a clacker type claymore, just no auto defense.

I think that thing with the camera angles may work. could be cool.

PghJoker · Post by **PghJoker** » 2006-01-16 03:52

Give em a pistol w/o a silencer, one frag grenade and one smoker. Everything else has been said regarding accuracy; it's sad that one can snipe more effectively with an M4 or M249 at this point.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-01-16 04:01

USAF-Marshall wrote:And BTW. Almost every soldier carries a Side-Arm with them. Learn how stuff works before you say how it is.

Marshall, almost every soldier certainly does not carry a sidearm. Sidearms are only issued to crew-served weapon gunners (machineguns, rocket launchers/recoilless rifles, etc.), snipers, special operations forces, armor crew, aviators/aircrew, military police, certain combat arms officers and NCOs (unit leaders) and any occupation deemed unworthy of a rifle.

And FNG's technical information about the Marine Corps, despite his joke monicker, has been correct at every post, so I believe he does know how stuff works when he says how it is.

FNG- your points regarding claymores are valid and we have been looking into ways to change their functioning, including the command-detonation, and changing the trigger proximity area to a "tripwire" extending in front of the mine.

Stargun · Post by **Stargun** » 2006-01-16 09:57

*KHMM* Sorry to disturb the disgussion, but what about the -=R I F L E S=- ?!

(I mean NOT the pistol, NOT the claymores, and even NOT the grenades, but the RIFLEEEESS!)

F.N.G. · Post by **F.N.G.** » 2006-01-16 20:41

Thanks Eddie,

Sorry for all my sarcasm, I just think some of the stuff that people come up with is kind of strange.

Maj.b00bz · Post by **Maj.b00bz** » 2006-01-17 08:40

USAF-Marshall wrote:... And BTW. Almost every soldier carries a Side-Arm with them. Learn how stuff works before you say how it is.

Say what? Maybe the "CH"air Force can afford to give every Airman a pistol but not any Army I know and certainly not the USMC. The Docs had pistols, the Zeros (officers) had them. Some gunners on crew served weapons too. I never qualified with a pistol until I was an MP and even then, they were not issued widely for Field Duty.

Now granted I've been out 12 years now but I'd be happy to ask the three 0311's and the one SSGT former SOI (School of Infantry) instructor who works for me now if that's changed.

Stargun · Post by **Stargun** » 2006-01-17 09:37

Come on guys!

Anyone still interested in the sniper rifles, or it's more important to discuss the other equipment of the sniper kit in this thread? If it's the case, then we should rename the thread, and it's OK

But as long, as this thread called "Sniper rifles" please, PLEASE, *P L E A S E* give your ideas closely related to the sniper rifles.

About elevation setting of the rifle.

I tried to tweak the M24, and figured out, that giving the bullet a noticable (even unrealistic) drop is a snap (adding a "ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 2" row at the "usrif_m24_Projectile" section in the tweak file), and off course I set the deviation modifiers in standing and crouching to high values (3.0 and 1.6) while setting the deviation modifier of the zoom setting to very low (devModZoom 0.005). This can made a very accurate weapon if it's used in the prone position, while zoomed, but it has a noticable bullet drop.

I don't know if it's possible to set the previous numbers according to the "firemode" setting (when we try to use the firemode as a switch between the different target distance ranges on the scope), but if we use more than one weapon slot (like the HEAT/SABOT switching), then this could be feasible.

What about the following sniper kit load-out:

1. Knife
2. Unsilenced pistol
3. Sniper rifle - scope accurately calibrated to target range <100 m
4. Sniper rifle - scope accurately calibrated to target range 100~250 m
5. Sniper rifle - scope accurately calibrated to target range 250~500 m
6. Spotting binoculars with wide FOV, lower magnification and range finder

I know if the "calibration" for higher distances mean setting the affect of the gravity to smaller values, then a rifle set to high distance can be used for close distances also. Therefore I think the only solution would be moving the crosshair up/down (the 3-4-5 different rifles could have different HUDs with different crosshairs) while giving a noticable parabola path to the bullet.

USAF-Marshall · Post by **USAF-Marshall** » 2006-01-17 13:20

NikovK wrote:Definately take his frags, and probably take his claymore. If you don't take his claymore, make it a remote instead of proximity detonation until/unless actual in-game tripwires are developed.

BULLET DROP FOR SNIPER RIFLES.

BF2 Vanilla tank shells had bullet drop. Find what made those bullets drop and put them on the sniper/designated marksman rifle rounds. I think the only reason why all bullets do not drop is to keep the CPU's from frying up on physics calculations from automatic weapons, but the tank shell drop proves that basic parabolic projectile flight is possible. After making the rounds drop, the next step is to rework the scope images so they're ticked off for ranges. The M24 uses a variable-zoom scope... and it sucks to be the M24 scope, because now they're using something ticked off for ranges. Sorry real-world M24 snipers.

I always snipe on BF2. There is a bullet drop on the sniper rifle. When I first started sniping I wouldn't kill people at about 1/4 - 1/2 mile away even though I aimed right at their head. I got a couple friends together and did a test. Stood a man next to a wall facing me with a medic next to him to spot my shot. I went about 1/2 mile away, layed down with a clean shot at his head and fired. The bullet hit his chest. I aimed above his head on the next shot about a milimeter on the scope and I got a head shot. Tried to aim at his head again and get a head shot but again I missed and hit his chest. The bullet drop is subtle but it is there. Just gotta notice it.

F.N.G. · Post by **F.N.G.** » 2006-01-17 20:45

I think Marshal is correct. At least it seems that way to me. I noticed it on assault rifles as well in Vanilla. I did a similar experiment I got to where I could barely see a friend in the prone, and tried and tried to hit him. (I was in the prone on single shot as well) He said he never saw my shot at all, so I aimed higher (about at his tags) and hit him.(pretty consistently) I think the drop is there in single shot mode, at least. Maybe they just give deviation to automatic mode with no drop.

Go on an empty Vanilla server with friends and try it out. Maybe its hard coded into the game and can't be changed by us. Maybe thats why it doesn't take that much processor power to calculate. Idunno.