Upgrade them Insurgents

Mentharian · Post by **Mentharian** » 2007-11-23 00:42

My suggestions :

-I think the War Veteran kit should have an AK-74 instead of an AK-47. The veterans aren't as powerful as they seem they should be. I think in the manual it says they do have them, but I cannot tell the difference if they do.

-The British in Al Basrah should have multiple points to defend to even the game out. They have one place to defend, the insurgents have ten. This seems unbalanced (No "life ain't fair" remarks).

Sorry if the devs are already on it.

SevenOfDiamonds · Post by **SevenOfDiamonds** » 2007-11-23 01:05

Whys there a "z" in Upgrades ...

Veterans are not more powerful then others. They are "smarter" Their a Vet. They know what they want in combat. Grenades too kill more people and a bandage cause bleeding sucks. About the rifle i don't know.

Its not a capture the flag map. It has to be looked at as a defense map. Insurgents are defending what they have. They do not need to run up to the VCP they are supose to defend their ammo and weapons. They arent trying to over-run the brits.

The caches are hidden until the Brits get intel on where one is. That is by arresting civis and killing and taking Insurgent kits. just dont go rambo or stupid and let them get the info. its inevitable but the more you can delay the less you have to denfend at once.

It is unbalanced but you know what ... thats how it is in real life. Project Reality.

Juba · Post by **Juba** » 2007-11-23 01:13

SevenOfDiamonds wrote:Whys there a "z" in Upgrades ...

Veterans are not more powerful then others. They are "smarter" Their a Vet. They know what they want in combat. Grenades too kill more people and a bandage cause bleeding sucks. About the rifle i don't know.

Its not a capture the flag map. It has to be looked at as a defense map. Insurgents are defending what they have. They do not need to run up to the VCP they are supose to defend their ammo and weapons. They arent trying to over-run the brits.

The caches are hidden until the Brits get intel on where one is. That is by arresting civis and killing and taking Insurgent kits. just dont go rambo or stupid and let them get the info. its inevitable but the more you can delay the less you have to denfend at once.

It is unbalanced but you know what ... thats how it is in real life. Project Reality.

Most the games I play Brits can find 8/10 caches without 1 shred of intel. So it is a capture the flag map basically, if Insurgents do not get Vcp the game is over.

SevenOfDiamonds · Post by **SevenOfDiamonds** » 2007-11-23 01:39

That sounds like the insurgents are wasting their time other things then defending ... now doesnt it? The Brits have to drop a squad that is searching and attacking to defend VCP. If not then it gets taken.

Just because it doesnt say defend doesnt mean you can just say "screw it" Sence most people know where the caches spawn you just have to pick one and defend it. If your team decids to run off and waste away their lifes ... sucks.

Insurgents live to defend in that map. Thats how its supose to work. People don't play it like that and you get what your talking about.

If the Brits destroy a cache it Tells you and it disappers from your map ... so its not hard to knwo where they are ... and terminate the oppsition in the area. You just delayed that squad from getting more caches.

Insurgents have a good advantage over the Brits inside the city. Easy to take out Warriors, easy to ambush jeeps and people on the ground. Plenty of roofs to use. When used effectivly IED's, mines and RPGs. Will and decisivly own the city.

Ecko · Post by **Ecko** » 2007-11-23 02:15

Juba wrote:Most the games I play Brits can find 8/10 caches without 1 shred of intel. So it is a capture the flag map basically, if Insurgents do not get Vcp the game is over.

This is the problem, the reason the game is over is cause all the insurgents were trying to get the VCP and were unsuccessful. If they set up proper ambush throughout the city near the caches they wouldn't lose.

DavidP · Post by **DavidP** » 2007-11-23 03:09

Juba wrote:Most the games I play Brits can find 8/10 caches without 1 shred of intel. So it is a capture the flag map basically, if Insurgents do not get Vcp the game is over.

That would me.

Mentharian · Post by **Mentharian** » 2007-11-23 03:16

Veterans are not more powerful then others.

I meant just by the rifle. This would be the "scoped" rifle of the insurgents.

Most the games I play Brits can find 8/10 caches without 1 shred of intel. So it is a capture the flag map basically, if Insurgents do not get Vcp the game is over.

Yeah, that's how most games go now.

DavidP · Post by **DavidP** » 2007-11-23 03:16

@OP Nah they're fine. Maybe if they'ed get a G3 instead.

Mentharian · Post by **Mentharian** » 2007-11-23 03:36

DavidP wrote:@OP Nah they're fine. Maybe if they'ed get a G3 instead.

How many vets do you see carrying around their M-16s from Vietnam? Most governments wouldn't let their soldiers keep expensive and much needed weaponry. The G3 might work for the squad leader, but I'm thinking the best soldiers would get the best available equipment.

SevenOfDiamonds · Post by **SevenOfDiamonds** » 2007-11-23 03:46

Squad leaders get Ak-101 with grenade launcher. maybe the vet can show his a vet by picking up a Brit weapon? And the Insurgents dont have a government to buy their weapons for them so they get what they can find/buy. UNLESS your a government operative which i dont think there are in the game. Unless the Officers kit of the Insurgent Squad Leader symbolizes that.

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2007-11-23 03:55

On the note of Insurgency I think the devs may add additional objectives (as discussed before). Such as possibly locating downed crash sites and things of that nature. The VCP flag should be removed IMO, making it a purely defensive map for the Insurgents. The only means of winning for the Insurgents should be through attrition, to kill as many enemies as possible. I'd give the Insurgents an almost infinite amount of tickets (999 or more if possible) while giving the Brits a limited amount of tickets (400 or something) because of this.

That would more or less balance the map asymmetrically, which is more or less the point of Insurgent/Militia maps.

DavidP · Post by **DavidP** » 2007-11-23 04:57

Mentharian wrote:How many vets do you see carrying around their M-16s from Vietnam? Most governments wouldn't let their soldiers keep expensive and much needed weaponry. The G3 might work for the squad leader, but I'm thinking the best soldiers would get the best available equipment.

This is the ME we're talking about! Everyone carries a gun.

Mentharian · Post by **Mentharian** » 2007-11-23 06:40

On a completely unrelated side note, is it possible to remove the suicide button for civilians? I am very guilty of this exploit, and I think you can look at it from two view points. On one hand, this gives the civilian the ability to never be knifed. On the other, I think a faction that uses suicide bombers also wouldn't hesitate in giving their troops cyanide pills.

Squad leaders get Ak-101 with grenade launcher. maybe the vet can show his a vet by having a Brit weapon? And the Insurgents dont have a government to buy their weapons for them so they get what they can find/buy. UNLESS your a government operative which i dont think there are in the game. Unless the Officers kit of the Insurgent Squad Leader symbolizes that.

I'm just saying that insurgents would get the best they could get with their resources they had. Iran could get Ak-74s for the insurgents if they wanted to.

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2007-11-23 12:08

Some points:

- I'm pretty sure that the suicide button is hard-coded, hence it would be impossible to remove it
- I don't think that the insurgents are getting anything scoped anytime soon. They're supposed to have to rely on close-quarters combat, not on taking on the British across the desert.
- The VCP is supposed to be hard to capture. If you can mount an effective attack and take it, good for you, but it is possible to win on the Insurgent side without ever leaving the city. Remember that the caches are inside the city, and this means that the British have to enter your domain so to speak to come after them. Make 'em pay.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-11-23 13:06

If you want some scoped action then grab a Mosin or a SVD. The Mosin's can be found at the Mosque on Al Basrah and the SVD's can be found on random weapons caches or in specific spawn locations. The SVD and the Mosin scopes have the same 4x zoom as the SUSAT but the weapons themselves both do greater damage. There is no need for any other scoped weapons really.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-11-23 14:30

I'm all up for giving the Veteran an iron sight G3, but that would make the kit even more overused, as it is now. I suggest more weapon pick ups like SKS, already mentioned G3 etc.

The Officer kit should have the AK47+GP-25, I have no idea, why Devs decided to still give it the AK101, after it has been proved, that this rifle is expensive and rare.

Also, if some 'safe zones' would be made into the map, where Insurgent pick ups would spawn and British could not access it (unless fastroping down from the Merlin

).
The 1337 players on GB already like to nick the SA7 or the Mosin, since they couldn't get a sniper kit and/or the M82 has been picked up.

Maxfragg · Post by **Maxfragg** » 2007-11-23 15:58

i like the SKS but i think it will stay a militia only weapon, but what about using OPKs upgrade system for the insurgents so that they can get better (also not as strong as the regular armys request kits), that are basicly only specialliced versions of the basic kits, because i think in a random mob of armed guys you should find a bit more variants than the spawnkits we have now.

Mentharian · Post by **Mentharian** » 2007-11-23 17:02

The "scoped" was in quotes. Sorry, I was trying to use it as a comparison, not actually equipping them with scopes.

ryan d ale · Post by **ryan d ale** » 2007-11-23 23:07

SevenOfDiamonds wrote:Maybe the vet can show his a vet by having a Brit weapon? And the Insurgents dont have a government to buy their weapons for them so they get what they can find/buy. UNLESS your a government operative which i dont think there are in the game. Unless the Officers kit of the Insurgent Squad Leader symbolizes that.

Lee Enfield rifle.

It's not unknown that alot of people want it but... I love the game as it is. G3 would be a nice return too.

fludblud · Post by **fludblud** » 2007-11-24 13:04

Mentharian wrote:How many vets do you see carrying around their M-16s from Vietnam? Most governments wouldn't let their soldiers keep expensive and much needed weaponry. The G3 might work for the squad leader, but I'm thinking the best soldiers would get the best available equipment.

this is the G3 we are talking about here and there are MILLIONS of em all over the place, especially in iraq where thousands have either been left over from the previous regime or shipped stright from iran which is phasing them out for their new Khaibar rifle.

so yes, insurgents should get them in some form, heck i remember seeing insurgent footage of the g3 in action.