Separate Engineer & Mechanic Kits

[[T]Terranova7]

Idea is pretty self-explanatory. What I suggest is making a separate Combat Engineer & Vehicle Mechanic kits.

The Combat Engineer kit would more or less handle construction and demolitions. So things like the shovel, C4, mines would still be available to them. Biggest change being that the wrench is no longer within the kit's inventory. The Combat Engineer's shovel will be capable of removing enemy explosives as opposed to the wrench. The Engineer's shovel would also be capable of repairing bridges. I was thinking because of this, the engineer should probably be a limited kit.

The Mechanic on the other hand, is a bit more poorly equipped, but is the only kit with the wrench, and the ability to drive supply/support vehicles. The Mechanic's would be available right on the spawn menu, so obtaining one is rather easy. The Mechanic's primary role would be to assist the commander in building some of the electronic assets (Command Post, Anti-Air in this case), and to assist in repairing vehicles on the field.

[DarkTalon]

I think all stock units (except for spec ops and medic) should have shovels, after all, they are grunts.
but other than that I like the idea of engineers being used to clear the battlefield, and the mechanic can fix vehicles.

[[T]Terranova7]

That's a good idea DarkTalon. It does seem like a hassle that an Officer, Support Gunner, L-AT, Grenadier etc. can't help build any assets.

In any case the idea is sort of inspired by real life military occupations. There isn't a field simply called "Macgyver" that can fix anything, make anything and destroy anything. Real life Combat Engineers and Mechanics are different specialties.

[LtSoucy]

its called crewman and engi. But i like the engi kit.

[[T]Terranova7]

The idea here LtSoucy, is to represent each occupational specialty as so.

Crewman (LAV & MBT) -
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjo2/a/0313.htm
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjo2/a/18.htm

Mechanic (Known as the Ordnance Field in the USMC) -
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjo2/a/21.htm

Combat Engineers-
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjo2/a/1371.htm

[BloodBane611]

I definitely like the idea of all grunts having the shovel. It seems sensible that all infantryman could help build defenses. I feel like this is so basic that there must be some thread already about it, especially because the shovel has already been limited to certain classes, but I searched and didn't find anything specific. Maybe I got lazy too early and didn't see it.
I definitely like both of these ideas, although I don't know that more spawnable classes are a good idea. Right now there are a pretty good number of kits ingame, and more might just add to the confusion and general mess.

[Outlawz7]

I think, bridges should be repaired with a shovel. Makes more sense than just wrenching them. +make an engineer shovel, so Rifleman can't use theirs to do the same. (sort of like engy and crewman wrench thing)

[Death_dx]

Does the model really matter that much outlawz? I mean repairing an APC's damage from a rocket with a wrench doesn't make much sense either.

If the combat engineer is getting split up, I think it would make more sense to make an engineer with wrench and mines (that can't drive) and a demo class, for removal of bridges/enemy assests. I think it makes more sense that the repairers would be moving with friendly (armored) vehicles, so that when they go by a heavily crossed intersection they could pop and and throw down a mine.

[fuzzhead]

more shovels, cool
repairing bridges, takes longer
split engi/mechanic, good idea but need more than 64 players to make this feasible methinks

engineer class will play a very good logistics role in v0.7 i think

[Swe_Olsson]

I wanna see an EOD Kit ingame, so the C4's can be removed from those bloody engineers

[[T]Terranova7]

split engi/mechanic, good idea but need more than 64 players to make this feasible methinks

Well the idea isn't really meant to take away the more necessary roles (Such as repair). As the Mechanic would be available on the spawn menu and could be selected whenever needed.

The Engineer on the other hand, who would have better construction, demolitions and EOD capabilities isn't really a kit that's essential to the team, and is more of an optional, strategically selected kit I thought might be best to make it limited. It would be one of those kits that's there but not actually needed, like the Support, Grenadier, Anti-Air, Marksman etc. kits. But it would become the kind of kit that you would want around so that you have the ability to blow up enemy assets, strategic structures (bridges etc.).

[AnRK]

There any way of making it so you need some kind of resources to fix a bridge? How do bridges go about been fixed in real combat anyway? Obviously they don't draft architects in to make sure they do a job that's true to the original structure and styling of the original...

[Eddie Baker]

Terranova, it isn't really worth it to separate the engineer into two different kits; there are only so many players per team, and in a conventional war, mechanics would only leave the maintenance station (accompanied by people with more combat training and weapons) to do a recovery of a disabled vehicle. The best you could hope for is a limited use wrench in the crewman kit for a mechanic, as armor crewmen are trained to perform basic maintenance tasks on their vehicles.

Swe Olsson, combat engineers do perform some EOD tasks, including mine clearance. However, full qualified EOD technicians are a rare bird, and qualified to render safe and dispose of conventional munitions of all types, as well as chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear munitions. It is a qualification course that is a year in length with an extremely high attrition rate. They do not help breach enemy defenses for the infantry or deny his mobility with mines and obstacles, they come in when something nasty is found or expected, sometimes independently, and sometimes attached to special operations forces. They don't really fit in here.

How do bridges go about been fixed in real combat anyway? Obviously they don't draft architects in to make sure they do a job that's true to the original structure and styling of the original...

The combat engineers assemble a Bailey bridge or use an armored vehicle launched bridge.

[Swe_Olsson]

Thanks edd