Sniper & SF kit suggestion

[Jaymz]

pretty good suggestion.

[DarkTalon]

I think this suggestion also encourages realistic spec ops, and sniper team deployment. it would be foolish to have a spec ops team walk all the way from the main base through the battle zone and into enemy territory. spec ops would have to find a way to get from point A to point B, instead of spawning at a rally point with the slandered units and walking a few hundred yards to the enemy base. spec ops would have to get in light vehicles and take the scenic route to the enemies territory, or get in a low flying little bird or lynx and drop into the river next to the enemy base.

[BloodBane611]

That seems like a very good suggestion. That's a very radical change of the SF class, but I have yet to see any pub SF players destroying commander assets or targeting the CO, so it seems like it is necessary.

[Waaah_Wah]

^^Thats coz the engineer is better at destroying assets. And he has mines. And the possibility to place roadside bombs using C4. He can take out tanks. Spec Ops only got a carabine that is pretty good at ranges below 200 meters. Thats it

[Mongolian_dude]

I personally dislike spec ops because 9/10 the players just want to play BF2 but with more gear. Sniper and spec ops have this lure of 'invisible, silent, deadly, efficient'. The irony of this being, players that chose those kits tend to lack all those attributes at any given time.
The stigmata that snipers are these renaissance lone rangers, with abilities above others and throwing in the odd one liner, is a very attractive prospect to the average male, which we can pretty much blame Hollywood for.

Since the dawn of BF2 and its kin, the SF kit has been the best in the large majority of areas, FACT. This is still quite apparent, if not more so, in other mods like USI and PoE2, where they are still a very dominant kit, with some of the best attributes.

High RoF- Automatic, 30round mag carbines.

High accuracy- Single shot function carbines, miraculously more accurate than the ARs, even when in fully auto, and usually inc. a reflex, holographic or optic sight.

Speed- Longest sprint capability.

Fire power- Ample C4, large radius, allows indirect-low risk attacks, effective against ALL unit types.

Stealth/clandestine abilities- Pack a knife+silence sidearm, which is miraculously accurate. Sometimes the carbine will be silenced also.


Considering the above, SF and snipers are pretty much out for themselves, which can be quit evident, as they are always going after the most powerful piece of tech and hardly ever support the rest of the team.

Try a little experiment.
Go onto a server with a map that has ample aircraft, especially attack/combat.
make a squad yourself (preferably squad 1, as you will get those that just want quick kits and a SL to spawn off of).

What you should notice is that the vast majority of players that request the Marksman-sniper (I use a hyphen to connect the two, as most of these types of players dont distinguish the two as different, and therefore request one in the other's absence) will spawn as special forces and will make little attempt to communicate with the squad.
In the field, an enemy sniper is at more risk than any other soldier, as these types of players will flock(across miles of rugged terrain) towards the distinctive sound of the SR (sniper rifles)

Secondly, the majority of players that request a pilot kit and go on to use the aircraft as their own private tool, will spawn a special forces.
They will sometimes wait and try all that they can to secure it for themselves, regardless of their actual ability to use these assets, or if they lack on board crew, necessary to use the asset to its full potential. This may involve teamkilling others (the LBs usualy, as they are open sided and make an easy TK)

In conclusion, these players are to be avoided if you are in a vulnerable or advantageous position (waiting on a chopper/plane/tank spawn). Furthermore, it is recommended that you avoid from having these players along side you, if you wish to have an effective and supportive squad.
However, todays lonewolf is tomorrow's Squad leader. It is undeniably beneficial to yourself and the PR community to take some time aside in a round and show them how PR differs to other mods, and how teamwork is the most effective and fun method to enjoy the Mod.


...mongol...

[Gyberg]

I agree with this suggestion.... Give the SF more powerful explosives and a silenced pistol so that he actually can sneak into enemy base and destroy assets.

[fuzzhead]

yeap mongol sums it up prety nicely.... that is the spec ops/sniper syndrome in a nut shell.... and why most of us kind of take those 2 kits as a joke.

[Mongolian_dude]

I agree with this suggestion.... Give the SF more powerful explosives and a silenced pistol so that he actually can sneak into enemy base and destroy assets.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!111!!!1!

That were not suggestion, that are serious post.
I was just saying that, that has always been the case in the world of BF2.
However, I do agree he should get the silenced pistol back for the sneaky kill. Its a SEALs trademark apparently, and aint the USMC SF a Maritime special forces unit?

...mongol...

[Outlawz7]

Yes, but SF should not be able to take on a full infantry squad or mech infantry.

They should be able to surprise some lone wolfs or poor guys caught at the wrong moment, but versus an assault force they should be creamed. I think, giving them 4 or 6 mags instead of 8 could reduce the full auto spammage.

[OkitaMakoto]

give the m4 a silencer and the damage of a pistol, give him slams or something, and just let him run free behind enemy lines, i honestly dont care if 2 guys on my team are being 1337 lame spec ops just as long as my squad is having fun..

maybe that wasnt the best thing to say, heh...

but really, i think if we gave the spec ops a silenced gun with weak firepower (weaker than standard m4 to simulate slower velocity and whatever mumbo jumbo there is) that maybe we'd get a few awesome squads of spec ops going behind an enemy and destroying all the transportation or something...

maybe Im just dreaming though... but right now, the m4 sounds so loud that most people probably cant help running and gunning with it on the front lines cuz its sounds like a g.d. machine gun BRAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKA

give 'em a nice pfft pfft pfft and they'll go hide in the woods behind an opfor vehicle pool and take it out before they know what hit 'em.

but then again, im an idiot...

[Jaymz]

SF requestable and main base only for 0.7,

k thanx bai

[DarkTalon]

IMO SF should have as little gear as possible, they should only have -3 mags, no sidearm C4/Slam, Binos and a knife (maybe a grapple)

in fact Spec Ops should have so little ammunition, that if they did get in a firefight they would not last long. Spec Ops should use their gun at a last resort, not as soon as they see an enemy.

The C4 should have an arming time/planting time (maybe it can be placed and then shoveled or something?)

so they can not throw a pack of C4 on a tank and instantly pull out a detonator and kill the tank.

also, maybe SF should be unique to factions, for example:
MEC special forces would be similar to an insurgent, with a grapple and IEDs

the Brits would have silenced weapons and several SLAMS

the USMC would have a fast moving (abnormal sprint) with an unsilenced M4 or SMG and some C4.

I dunno, just something that came to my head.

[CDN-SMOKEJUMPER]

Damn do some people have a hate for Spec Ops. They use an M4 it's quite accurate up to 200M. I also think they should have a silenced pistol and more powerful explosives. They should have ropes as well so they can sneak around. Leave off the body armour to keep them easy fodder if they are foolish in their play style.

Special Forces are good at what they do, they go around in small teams and blow shit up. They are also the cream of the crop in soldiering so why cripple them?

I do like the idea of limiting them but just so long as you can have at least 3 or 4 in a squad so you can have a dedicated blow shit up squad.

It's too bad you can't limit it but still have the body armour removed to even it up.

I have never had a problem with spec ops in the game. When I need an M4 for CQB it's great. If I need to blow soft skins up it's great. It's also great for easy kills when you come across the newbies who use it at the wrong times.

[Silvarius2000]

If I may add my 5 cents may I suggest we look back at some basics? From what I can understand Project Reality categorizes its 'Classes' Pretty easily by role.

Now.. lets look at SpecOps. I notice everyone is looking at one of the auxiliary uses of Special Forces units. May I remind all of you that the term Special Forces has a very broad meaning to it. Its another word for People Specialized in something. Rangers are really overtrained army units but they are still SF. Marine Force Recon are really marines who have specialized training. And how do you differentiate between Police/Military special units? SWAT and SEALS are technically both SF but they are very very much different.

In my understanding the Special Forces unit for the purposes of this game should be somewhat more general (limited by the scope of the game). More like an LRRP patrol where they are built around the ability to conduct aggresive patrols behind enemy lines or contested lines for any purpose from demo, ambush, recon, presence.

In Iraq and afghanistan, SF isnt just used for fancy schmanzy raids and ambushes. They too conduct patrols and interact with natives, which is what the army does too. Its just that they have Specialization.

Therefore what I am suggesting is to remove SpecialForces as a class and to further break it down into kits/classes whatever. The point is SF is too general/broad a name. Why couldnt there be an SF engineer or assault? Lets have the classes by Role/Purpose or specialization like DM, EOD, LRRP and such.

M4's dont make SF. IMHO though the current SF isnt survivable enough hehe.

Out.

[Gyberg]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!111!!!1!

That were not suggestion, that are serious post.
I was just saying that, that has always been the case in the world of BF2.
However, I do agree he should get the silenced pistol back for the sneaky kill. Its a SEALs trademark apparently, and aint the USMC SF a Maritime special forces unit?

...mongol...

Dont worry mongol, I got your point... The suggestion I was referring to was the OP's...
And yes there is a dilemma... In order for the specops to work as they should i.e. destroying enemy assets they need to have more powerful explosives and preferably a more silent means of disposing of hostile targets. But this would make them even more attractive to the all the "1337" players out there. Just saying that slams aint worth shit when it comes to destroying stuff. And trust me plasticexplosives aint that heavy to carry around, you get alot of "explosive-power" per pound.

[nedlands1]

If I may add my 5 cents may I suggest we look back at some basics? From what I can understand Project Reality categorizes its 'Classes' Pretty easily by role.

Now.. lets look at SpecOps. I notice everyone is looking at one of the auxiliary uses of Special Forces units. May I remind all of you that the term Special Forces has a very broad meaning to it. Its another word for People Specialized in something. Rangers are really overtrained army units but they are still SF. Marine Force Recon are really marines who have specialized training. And how do you differentiate between Police/Military special units? SWAT and SEALS are technically both SF but they are very very much different.

In my understanding the Special Forces unit for the purposes of this game should be somewhat more general (limited by the scope of the game). More like an LRRP patrol where they are built around the ability to conduct aggresive patrols behind enemy lines or contested lines for any purpose from demo, ambush, recon, presence.

In Iraq and afghanistan, SF isnt just used for fancy schmanzy raids and ambushes. They too conduct patrols and interact with natives, which is what the army does too. Its just that they have Specialization.

Therefore what I am suggesting is to remove SpecialForces as a class and to further break it down into kits/classes whatever. The point is SF is too general/broad a name. Why couldnt there be an SF engineer or assault? Lets have the classes by Role/Purpose or specialization like DM, EOD, LRRP and such.

M4's dont make SF. IMHO though the current SF isnt survivable enough hehe.

Out.

Excellent point here. Why not "borrow" the OPK's upgrade system for obtaining a SF kit? One would simply spawn at the rear flag as a medic say, then "upgrade" their kit to SF, which would result in a SF version of their current loadout spawning at their feet. Another system would have to be put in place so the SF's stay together in one squad instead of spreading out.

[fuzzhead]

i agree, the name 'special forces' or special 'operations' is very vague, and all it does is attract the leet kiddies to an otherwise cool kit.

ive been trying to change the name to 'saboteur' for a long time, to better illustrate the classes role.

[Waaah_Wah]

If your going to change the name to saboteur, give it some more explosives Coz right now, if im going to try to blow up the enemy bunker/hidden APC/command truck/ command post i will take the engineer kit. It has more powerful explosives and i can place mines and roadside bombs. So if you guys are going to make a saboteur kit, pleace give it 2 C4's instead of 2 SLAM's. Or maybe 2 SLAM's and 1 C4.

[BloodBane611]

SF requestable and main base only for 0.7,

k thanx bai

Sweet. I realize that the thrust of this thread has changed entirely, but this is still a good answer.

I think simply changing the SF primary would be a big step in the right direction. The slams aren't cutting it at all, but leet-tards don't take it for the explosives. If SF is going to be effective it needs a complete makeover.

Realistically SF are not going to be doing any kind of straight up combat. It's a waste of their skills and equipment, and its not as effective as their true primary missions. The SF class needs to reflect this, and not reward players for taking it for a leet carbine that mows people down in CQB.

[jayceon515]

Why don't just rename the class to "RECON" so the 1337 kids won't overuse it? Give it a silenced rifle and sidearm with 2 C4's, binocs and maybe a grappling hook. Make a limit of 3 SF kits per 32 player team (IMO there is no need for a full 6 player squad of 1337 kiddies fighting at the front line). The spec ops should get a different kit geometry since now it looks so retarded with that USMC baseball cap, MEC and PLA beret (only the GB one looks fine). They should all get the standard "assault" geometry with a helmet and camelbak.

And IMO there is no need for the guillie suit so why doesn't it get removed?