Bring the combat zones back closer?

[Outlawz7]

Yes, ever since maps like Ejod, Phoenix, Sunset... got an explosive amount of extra territory due the combat border being miles away, I noticed an issue with "flanking".

On Phoenix, when an USMC squad sets a RP east of Train, behind the hill, MEC always has to go all the way around to sweep them out, slowly draining soldiers from the general area where the CPs are, to fight in no man's land, because someone deployed a pile of bags somewhere and magically pulled out a sniper kit.
The main area is focused around the city, yet there's rarely any fighting in it, besides the times, when USMC squads don't want to be 1337 behind-3n3my-lines-suP3r-sn1p3rZ.

Same thing on Ejod. While there's less spamminess in the central area, there will be always someone going around in the hills to ambush the other team, then the other team will send its APCs, tanks...to that direction, leaving no one capturing the flags or defending them, making the central area an actual ghost town, as the map description says.

It's also an issue on Sunset, where one team deploys a RP far up the river or down the lake, then you have to send squads 500 m away from the city to track them down. There literally isn't any fighting in the city itself now, as everyone can go around anywhere they want to.

My proposal would be to bring the combat zones closer, yet far enough to set RPs without forcing the entire enemy team to hunt you down.

Discuss.

[darkNight]

Negatiory. Let them be like they are! Makes quite a lot of fun. We need more maps like EJOD Desert. I'm looking forward to Muttrah v2 and I hope that it won't be too big because the good old Muttrah feeling (you frikkin know what I mean :mrgreen would go to hell. I really love maps like that! Harr Harr!

[jayceon515]

Putting limits to realism isn't a very good idea. IRL no one can will force you to only fight inside the city if there is plenty of surrounding areas to use as cover or whatever (EJOD/Sunset)

[Harrelson]

well on phoenix usmc camp on the hills because they have a scope that can engage the flag from far. i wonder what would happen if they all had iron sights?

[BloodBane611]

I believe that the plan is to move to real scopes, from the current pseudo scopes, so that is basically null and void.

Anyhow, I agree with jay. Innovate, get there first, or get better at killing them. Lets not limit the space we have just to keep from being challenged.

[Outlawz7]

Yes, I do agree, that IRL no one tells you 'you can't go here', but on Ejod the area is really way too big, IMO, I wouldn't minds 200 m to west and east, but 1 Km of plain desert?

[Viper5]

With the exception of water, no limit to maneuver space IRL...

[Dunehunter]

Actually, in real-life, don't units get zones in which they are supposed to operate, to avoid friendly fire and that kind of stuff?

[blud]

He's right about this being an issue though. I don't know what the solution is though, or if there is one.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Yes, ever since maps like Ejod, Phoenix, Sunset... got an explosive amount of extra territory due the combat border being miles away, I noticed an issue with "flanking".

On Phoenix, when an USMC squad sets a RP east of Train, behind the hill, MEC always has to go all the way around to sweep them out, slowly draining soldiers from the general area where the CPs are, to fight in no man's land, because someone deployed a pile of bags somewhere and magically pulled out a sniper kit.
The main area is focused around the city, yet there's rarely any fighting in it, besides the times, when USMC squads don't want to be 1337 behind-3n3my-lines-suP3r-sn1p3rZ.

Same thing on Ejod. While there's less spamminess in the central area, there will be always someone going around in the hills to ambush the other team, then the other team will send its APCs, tanks...to that direction, leaving no one capturing the flags or defending them, making the central area an actual ghost town, as the map description says.

It's also an issue on Sunset, where one team deploys a RP far up the river or down the lake, then you have to send squads 500 m away from the city to track them down. There literally isn't any fighting in the city itself now, as everyone can go around anywhere they want to.

My proposal would be to bring the combat zones closer, yet far enough to set RPs without forcing the entire enemy team to hunt you down.

Discuss.

This would be vanilla if they did that then. There is plenty of combat when you hae an objective like a cache or control point. Too much combat(basically closer CPs and zones=Vanilla) would mean people would be killed every second. That is not fun.

[Outlawz7]

Yes, but those maps were designed with a out of bounds areas in mind, not the long range 0.6 combat as it is now.
So either 1. bring the combat zones closer(not back as they were), 2. expand the map 3. remove the map (?)

[fuzzhead]

All new maps will be designed with keeping in mind using the maximum amount of space avaliable. BF2 has tiny maps in comparison to other games, PR is trying to get larger combat environments, not smaller.

your 2 examples (EJOD and Pheonix) are older maps made way before the major changes in PR. Although the closely packed CP's are a bit of a problem, i dont think closing the map boundaries is a good solution. Flanking room is great, and the more of it the better IMO. If you venture too far away from your CP and it gets lost, its your own damn fault for not following your mission and getting carried away, and good for the enemy for distracting you long enough.

[BloodBane611]

If you venture too far away from your CP and it gets lost, its your own damn fault for not following your mission and getting carried away, and good for the enemy for distracting you long enough.

Amen. Know when to flank and how far to flank, and how to avoid or destroy those who flank you. I'm glad to see the devs are embracing space, I can't wait for .7 maps.

[Gyberg]

The way it is now is very relaistic, in order to achieve the main objective (capturing the flag) you will most likely have to control key-locations close by to cover the objective (i.e. the hills east of train on phoenix), which is what you would do irl, not just charge for the main objective straight away.

[Doom721]

I was playing on kashan the other day and said "Man I wish this map was bigger"

I'm totally serious, I won't stop whining until I can see attack helos from the other side of the map on kashan, and its 2x bigger

[CAS_117]

I think that about 5/10 flags make no locational sense.

[RHYS4190]

Yes, ever since maps like Ejod, Phoenix, Sunset... got an explosive amount of extra territory due the combat border being miles away, I noticed an issue with "flanking".

On Phoenix, when an USMC squad sets a RP east of Train, behind the hill, MEC always has to go all the way around to sweep them out, slowly draining soldiers from the general area where the CPs are, to fight in no man's land, because someone deployed a pile of bags somewhere and magically pulled out a sniper kit.
The main area is focused around the city, yet there's rarely any fighting in it, besides the times, when USMC squads don't want to be 1337 behind-3n3my-lines-suP3r-sn1p3rZ.

Same thing on Ejod. While there's less spamminess in the central area, there will be always someone going around in the hills to ambush the other team, then the other team will send its APCs, tanks...to that direction, leaving no one capturing the flags or defending them, making the central area an actual ghost town, as the map description says.

It's also an issue on Sunset, where one team deploys a RP far up the river or down the lake, then you have to send squads 500 m away from the city to track them down. There literally isn't any fighting in the city itself now, as everyone can go around anywhere they want to.

My proposal would be to bring the combat zones closer, yet far enough to set RPs without forcing the entire enemy team to hunt you down.

Discuss.

Well you have a valid point the server populations (64) is to small for all that goosing about, having big maps like this mean every one get spread out and over extended that whats outlaw is trying to say. So you need more people for those large maps.

[Ablack77]

I disagree sorry outlawz,
I enjoy the free space totally, plenty of room to move, plenty of options, plenty of different scenarios makes for a more realistic experience.

On Ejod for example your enemy might decide to flank you over to the east,
If the boundaries were brought in you might not have the option (if you wanted to) to then in turn flank that enemy (or out-flank them)

More room the better I say, Even if some space never gets used at least you've got the 'option' to use it.

This is also good for replay value, Some maps can get very tiring after a while when there's only certain (predictable) areas or paths that can be taken to defend or attack a flag.

[Outlawz7]

Well you have a valid point the server populations (64) is to small for all that goosing about, having big maps like this mean every one get spread out and over extended that whats outlaw is trying to say. So you need more people for those large maps.

Here's an idea: how about bringing back/making new 32p versions of maps, which are smaller, yet still big? I know, Ejod doesn't have a 32p and Op Phoenix is meant for 32p, but Qwai River for example, had a 32p, which is still there, it's just removed from the .desc file, so it doesn't show on the map list.

I know that new maps are designed to give a lot of space, but old ones, such as Ejod don't really fit in, as the flags are stacked together too much, thereby it makes no sense to go around 1 Km to capture flags which are no more than a few streets apart.

Then again, I really hated the 0.5 Ejod for the uber spam fest, where people rushed in with AT4s to clear out enemies hiding behind a trash bin, since there was no way to go around and capturing East City was also super spam fest, as tons of players rushed through the archway and the two streets, that lead to it...not to mention the artillery *shudder*