FlashBANG?

[Waaah_Wah]

I agree that the effect should last for quite some time.

[<1sk>Headshot]

I don't know but I don't think they're used in combat situations like in forests or the like so they should be removed on open maps and put in more urban maps.

OT, wouldn't anyone like to see a CQC map?

[Bob_Marley]

They not really used in those situations then? Seemed a little strange to me as I thought they were only really used in SF, indoorsy kinda situations. Unless you wanna open the top of them, and pour 500 into a bombshell and drop it over an Iraqi town somewhere or other.

Yeah, more or less.

From what I understand from looking at a military manual or two, FBs are only used where its impractical to use fragmentation or concussion grenades.

First choice would always be frags, as they are the most likley to kill someone. However, in situations in poorly constructed buildings (where the grenade might knock down the building) or where there are hostages/civilians that might be caught in the blast then flash bangs would probubly be used as they are less likely to kill/injure civis/hostages and/or knock down the building.

As neither of these situations is likely on a conventional vs conventional map I'd say that FBs should be removed as they are unrealistic.

[<1sk>Headshot]

As neither of these situations is likely on a conventional vs conventional map I'd say that FBs should be removed as they are unrealistic.

So what's the problem with having them in urban maps only.

[AnRK]

Well as Bob said it's not just about it been urban, it's about whether civilians are involved and a few cases where you might cause structural damage.

I'm not sure, but in conventional warfare don't civilians get the fuck outta dodge most of the time before any large scale fighting occurs? Obviously not always possible but most of the time, but I'd of thought they'd be out pretty sharpish if they knew there was gonna be trouble.

[Waaah_Wah]

Would be great if you get the "head under water" sound you get when your in a tank for like 30-40 sec after being flashbanged.

[LtSoucy]

it is loud. Yurn ur sound up and when 1 is at ur feet. Your ears are dead.

[AnRK]

Not compared to a grenade or anything like that though, either way loud noises don't seem to mess up your hearing as much as I would of thought they should.

[Ninja2dan]

In real life a flashbang for military use is usually limited to being carried during MOUT warfare, and primarily only by SpecOps units.

I have been on both ends of various distraction devices, both as military and as law enforcement. The effect is painful to say the least. When it pops, there is a very loud bang that will usually cause immediate temporary full or partial blindness due to whiteout, as well as sounds being muffled and your ears ringing and hurting like someone stuck a screwdriver in your ear. The blindness is similar to having a camera flashbulb go off in your face, only 100 times worse. The whiteout lasts for quite some time after your ears stop ringing. Another painful side effect that might be difficult to replicate in the game though is the overpressure. When the FB goes off there is a rapid shock wave that sucks the air out of your lungs and pounds your body, sometimes makes you want to vomit like you got hit by a truck. It's similar to the shell-shock effect when being too close to artillery or heavy cannons being fired.

Comparing the real effects to those currently in the game, I feel the flashbangs in PR are quite weak. Your GPS and maps go blank, your vision is blurred, and your audio goes down a lot. But I think your audio should actually be a high-volume ringing sound with a secondary low-volume heart beat, similar to that heard when injured. The blur and whiteout effect lasts for a fair amount of time, but the sound should be loud and heavy for at least 15 seconds, followed by another 15 seconds or so of reduced audio or silence (excluding heart beating).

As for the use of distraction devices, I do not see the realism in having them on maps other than a MOUT setting. And even then, only SpecOps should have them in their kits. The primary application of a flashbang in urban warfare is to prevent civilian loss of life, which isn't an issue in this game. The other reason in real life is if the walls are too weak and the use of frags might penetrate the walls thereby wounding yourself or other friendlies. In PR, I'm not sure if frags contribute to the decay of building hitpoints. If they do, it might be advisable to reduce that damage level so that a normal frag can't bring a building down until 10 or more have been detonated inside it.

You can always issue limited kits a concussion grenade, which acts similar to a flashbang. These are used in situtations such as tossing them into the hatch or peep of an armored vehicle to kill/wound the occupants without damaging the vehicle too much, as well as in situations where a standard flashbang might be deployed.

As a sidenote, flashbangs are not only a hand-tossed grenade form. Distraction devices are also fired via 37/40mm launchers, as well as from 12g shotguns.

EDIT: As an interesting note, I now have tinnitus in my ears due to the flashbangs as well as being an artilleryman. Not to mention shooting the M249 without earplugs was a bad idea.

[Waaah_Wah]

Bump

[00SoldierofFortune00]

They may not be realistic, but they are an incentive to play as a squadleader, so why not? They are hardly used as it is anyway. And if someone does want to use them(like myself), I usually only use them in a building anyway.

[Thunder]

Bump

stop bumping threads, if you got something to add then post it, otherwise leave the thread die

[Viper5]

According to a few guys I know (Both USMC and US Army) from Iraq, I gathered that flashbangs have made their way down to the squad and fireteam level because of the urban nature of IRaq and are not uncommon to find amongst regular troops.

[jerkzilla]

So, what I understood after reading this thread is that flashbangs would only, realistically, be useful in the insurgency game mode.
What I would like to know is their effective range. What's the maximum distance at which the grenade can actually cause a decent whiteout and ear ringing?
Sometimes, a frag grenade just doesn't have the range to clear a room or render the enemy incapable enough to efficiently fight back while clearing (for example, the Seven Gates bunker), and I'm thinking a flashbang might have a good enough range to let you get in position to engage the enemy, without getting shot in the process.

[Sadist_Cain]

Ninja has hit the nail on the head.

When you're flashbanged you can be looking at a wall and youll still be blinded because the entire wall goes a blinding white and youre left like that for a good 30 seconds minimal, bout a minute till your eyes stop watering. then you have the crushing sound, it dosnt sound like a part popper like it does at the moment. the aound makes you feel like your ears are bleeding.

At the moment I can lob a flashbang into a room, 2 flashbangs even, and still walk into a wall of well aimed bullets, which just dosnt happen.

What is needed is MASSIVE volume increase and the tinitus effect with your heartbeat, for a good 30 seconds minimal.

Also I had a thought how about giving the SL a flashbang and/or a CS grenade aswell, something that if the enemy walks through they start coughing and go blind until they go away and lie down for a bit.

Both of these things would be awesome even if only included in insurgencyu mode

[Masaq]

The idea of upping them massively and then only including them on Insurgent-based maps would be good. Would finally give the US/UK a way of reliably being able to take out Civillians - bang 'em and chase 'em as they stumble around, which is what I usually do (it just isn't all that effective unless a) you're close to them and b) you get the banger right on top of them. And if you do that and criterion (a) is met, well, you go a bit squiffy too).

[Waaah_Wah]

stop bumping threads, if you got something to add then post it, otherwise leave the thread die

Bump! I just did it again

[Smegburt_funkledink]

"Frag out!!!"

BOOM!!! thread dead....

I heard talk of the flash bangs being removed, are they still in 0.75? Can't say I've seen/heard one for a while...

[Zimmer]

they are removed suppresion is better flashbangs just to point it out that flashbang isnt useful.

[PrivateJson]

Well, leave the flashy things in the Insurgency mode, but take them out on the other maps.

The loud sound and overpressure is mostly effective inside, in rooms etc. Great idea to use them to take out civilians!

As someone posted, look at America's Army to see a implementation, or maybe CoD4 (not as nice, but okay).

regards,
Steen