Air maps?

Post by **eggman** » 2006-01-23 07:44

Hrm .. an interesting idea about captureable carriers.... could have Para drop CPs above the carriers, guys could drop onto the carrier to try and capture it.

Scrapping the idea of an island... could try boats, tho I doubt they'd ever make it from one carrier to the other.

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2006-01-23 13:11

"Why dont we have any air only maps?"

Because they get boring very fast, usually degrade into baseraping in under 5 minutes, and are only there when you just want to fuck around in a plane.

If you want air only maps why not play all the other mods out there that cater to that sort of play style?

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2006-01-23 15:33

'[R-PUB wrote:fuzzhead']"Why dont we have any air only maps?"

Because they get boring very fast, usually degrade into baseraping in under 5 minutes, and are only there when you just want to fuck around in a plane.

If you want air only maps why not play all the other mods out there that cater to that sort of play style?

Which is why you design the map so that it could be won in under 5 minutes. Most BF2 maps are designed to be 30 minute slugfeasts between two uncappable bases. Even on maps like Karkand or Sharqi where you can win by domination its *STILL* a slugfeast. Why?

So for an air map, you can make 2 flags covering the entire map (one half each, spawns/airplanes slightly outside on the map edge). Enemy take your flag: They win. You take their flag: You win. End of story.

If it turns into a baseraping, that will happen outside your flag. Which means the enemy is in your flagzone and you are not. Ie you'll loose quickly.

Tzefanya · Post by **Tzefanya** » 2006-01-23 16:35

dawdler, that's a very interesting concept. I dislike all maps where all spawn points are not capturable mainly because if a team is kicking butt and taking names, they deserve a chance to end the game early. Plus most generally when all the other team has is their non-cap left, the get aggravated at dying so quickly and leave the game.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-23 16:45

What if it were just a Coral Sea type map? Assuming large ships are still possible and they can sink instead of exploding then it can't be considered baseraping if it's the objective.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-01-23 21:10

Cerberus wrote:BF2 is absolutely horrible for air to air combat. Not only are the maps small and the jets fast, but the view distance is so damn short

I never really played BF1942 so I can't compare, but I have loads of fun dogfighting in BF2. In a jet's only map the ability to not check your 6 would really shine as you would rely on your fellow pilots to watch your back.

Only problemy I see is tons of mid air collisions.

Szarko · Post by **Szarko** » 2006-01-24 00:15

To make baserape impossible or atleast hard, why not put like 3 essex guns on the deck (but not in the way) so that people that dont know how to fly or rather not fly, can defend their carrier.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-01-24 01:23

=PL=POLSKA wrote:To make baserape impossible or atleast hard, why not put like 3 essex guns on the deck (but not in the way) so that people that dont know how to fly or rather not fly, can defend their carrier.

I'd put 5 or more to make it suicide to atack a carrier and place the carriers on opposite corners of the map to give a good area that's not covered by the essex guns.

Zepheris Casull · Post by **Zepheris Casull** » 2006-01-25 16:41

or we could just make thoose phalanx ( essex guns???? ur talking the CIWS modules right??? ) do what they are supposed to do, RIP any object bigger than a basketball within 1.5 km of the ship into shred with 20 mm cannon shells at 6000 rpm under full automatic guidance.

nah kidding, a real phalanx with BF2 planes would mean lots of dead planes.

what we can do though, is give the phalanx gunner a bloody damn radar so they don't get shot without warning by planes, and hence stand very little chance of surviving. That and make the M61 closer to what they do in real life, shredding thoose aluminium flying tin can in 2 second flat.

To make the gunner's life more interesting, the carrier, should also move on a route instead of standing still. probably hard to do i guess, but just an idea.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-25 20:37

I think that the CIWS needs to be much more effective. It really would shred a plane in short order and if it stops baseraping why not? It would make the gunners semi-invincible though.

Szarko · Post by **Szarko** » 2006-01-25 20:48

Yes i think the CIWS should be beefed up alot... make it invincible even... because what is the enemy doing at your carrier in the first place... baserape?...if they are in range they should get ripped apart...

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-25 21:02

Right, unless the objective ever becomes 'sink the enemy ship'

.

Szarko · Post by **Szarko** » 2006-01-25 21:03

lol ofcourse... because that would kind of be impossible with like 5 CIWS on the deck of the essex lol.... would be funny to see though...

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-25 21:06

Haha one suicidal enemy pilot rushing the deck! The pilots waiting in line to take off could make bets on how long he lasts. One thing this brings up is the need for a Chinese or at least a bought Russian aircraft carrier to be made, 2 US ships doesn't make a hell of alot of sense does it?

Tzefanya · Post by **Tzefanya** » 2006-01-25 21:35

I've been working through an air supremacy map idea. Here's the concept...

Enemy forces have secured a disabled aircraft carrier off the coast of 3 small islands linked only to the main land via a bridge. The US forces must launch from 2 aircraft carriers to the far southeast and attempt to secure the carrier.

Flags: All flags are capturable, including the US carriers. 4 total flags. 1 flag in between the 2 US carriers, 1 air supremacy flag which will be in the middle of the ocean between the 2 US carriers and the disabled carrier. 1 flag on the land mass. 1 flag on the disabled carrier. AAS will work in a sort of logical flow, US must first establish air superiority, then land, then secure the carrier. While the MEC team must attempt to establish air superiority then attempt to destroy the other two carriers (capture the flag).

Details: There will be no AA vehicles, such as the linebacker available to the MEC forces. The MEC forces will only have access to the AA systems on the disabled carrier and multiple AA emplacements on the islands. Vehicles on the land mass will be limited to jeeps and humvees. The land mass and islands are extremely moutainous and hilly making bombers lives extremely hard. The US will have 2 bombers, 4 fighters, 1 attack chopper, and 1 blackhawk. The MEC will have 6 fighters, and 2 attack choppers. Boats will be available from the 2 US carriers and variously placed around the islands. Visibility will be mostly clear (600).

I've created a very simple image of what the map will look like (not necessarily to scale). No 16 player version will be available, 32/64 players on one map size.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-01-25 21:51

I like the idea for the map, though the flags, like always should be cappable in order. It would blow to have your flags with aircraft snatched out from under you right from the get-go.

As for the Phalanx vs. essex guns, I call em essex because isn't the Phalanx a close range anti missle system? I know that the guns on the carriers are supposed to be Phalanx's but they're too off of their functionality for me to call them what they are.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-25 21:54

I think the Phalanx, I may be wrong, but I think it's really for anything that gets through the AA missiles.

Szarko · Post by **Szarko** » 2006-01-25 21:54

Tzefanya wrote:I've been working through an air supremacy map idea. Here's the concept...

Enemy forces have secured a disabled aircraft carrier off the coast of 3 small islands linked only to the main land via a bridge. The US forces must launch from 2 aircraft carriers to the far southeast and attempt to secure the carrier.

Flags: All flags are capturable, including the US carriers. 4 total flags. 1 flag in between the 2 US carriers, 1 air supremacy flag which will be in the middle of the ocean between the 2 US carriers and the disabled carrier. 1 flag on the land mass. 1 flag on the disabled carrier. AAS will work in a sort of logical flow, US must first establish air superiority, then land, then secure the carrier. While the MEC team must attempt to establish air superiority then attempt to destroy the other two carriers (capture the flag).

Details: There will be no AA vehicles, such as the linebacker available to the MEC forces. The MEC forces will only have access to the AA systems on the disabled carrier and multiple AA emplacements on the islands. Vehicles on the land mass will be limited to jeeps and humvees. The land mass and islands are extremely moutainous and hilly making bombers lives extremely hard. The US will have 2 bombers, 4 fighters, 1 attack chopper, and 1 blackhawk. The MEC will have 6 fighters, and 2 attack choppers. Boats will be available from the 2 US carriers and variously placed around the islands. Visibility will be mostly clear (600).

I've created a very simple image of what the map will look like (not necessarily to scale). No 16 player version will be available, 32/64 players on one map size.

i like that idea... sounds fun...

however i think that just a basic map with 2 carriers, one for each team (could say china stole one, or made one what ever), with 2-4 flags in the air... would be enough... with like 3 plane spawns that respawn in like 10secs so people dont have to wait to get up in the air...

Zepheris Casull · Post by **Zepheris Casull** » 2006-01-25 23:36

i like the map idea's too, sounds fun and interesting.

well that's the thing isn't it.. phalanx is meant to shred anything that gets within 1.5 km range of the ship. planes, missiles, boats even, anything whatsoever that it can target that managed to slip by the missile defense layer.

here's an idea then, if there's ever gonna be a "sink the ship" objective, maybe ASMs can be introduced??, then the phalanxes would be the only thing that will stop them. Or u could use the planes and knock the launch platform (planes, or ground launcher vehicle) before it get's into range. the maps in BF2 are too small for that though, but if we can somehow overcome that...

MonkeyNutz · Post by **MonkeyNutz** » 2006-01-26 12:30

I hate the planes in vanilla BF2, I would hate to play a crappy arcade flight sim in the middle of a more realistic mod for BF2. They will never be even close to semi realistic (they even are out of context with in the BF2 universe) so they just seem like something included to keep the flybois happy. I'd much prefer AI air strikes with the use of Target Designators then seeing something that can do Mach 2+ turn in the space of a football field.

Planes flying around at scale speeds of what seams to be 200 mph completely destroy any immersion factor. I would suggest making a different mod along the lines, Top Gun 2K6: Flight on the talentless.