Hi all, before I start I want to say great mod, and as soon as I upgrade my computer I will start playing it. That aside from everything I have read, I have been waiting over 3 months to play this, I know I need a life, it seems like insurgency needs a bit of tweaking.
I know similar ideas have been suggested, but I have a slightly different take on it. How about insurgents have mapper placed rally points that vary in location at the start of maps. Almost all are inside houses within the city or in other locations spread around the map. They do not respawn when destroyed and the insurgents can have something like 20 of them or so, perhaps less, perhaps more, but at variable locations.
Insurgent caches will still exist, and serve as weapon reload and limited kit request points. Also perhaps include a ticket penalty if destroyed. The goal, however, should be to eliminate these spawn points. Intel should be gathered to locate these points just as before, but the new addition, if possible would be to place a new one for every 5 civilians that are killed. Insurgents often use civilian deaths, both accidental or deliberate, to further their own goals, hence more fighters would be recruited.
Also, I think it would up the ante in favor of the insurgents if the conventional army has a base, such as the VCP on Basrah, where the conventional army cannot respawn at. The round will begin with only a mapper placed rally point on a 5 minute timer. That will mean that as the defenders fall, new ones will have to be constantly brought in, or else it just means that someone will build a bunker there, regardless, I think that it could create some major fear if the enemies start killing the defenders and more need to be flown in or driven up.
How it would work then is conventional forces need to hunt down insurgent rallies, and caches, while defending. Most of the rallies would be inside the city inside buildings, so it would encourage house to house fighting, and the presence of civilians could reduce the nading. Also I feel this brings up the possibility of more ambushes within the city, which many people argue is lacking.
To do this effectively, I would also recommend giving some flashbang grenades to rifleman iron sights on insurgent missions to cut down on civicide.
Any thoughts or is this too pretentions to request for my second post? I will admit though I have never actually played the game, but to me this sounds a bit more realistic with the need for house searches, and insurgents coming from everywhere, while the allied forces only come from one spot, or at best rallies.
Insurgency Changes (Long Post)
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Sadist_Cain
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: 2007-08-22 14:47
Love the idea of spawn points inside the buildings, perhaps more elaborate houses aswell, knocked through attics etc. There should be less than 20 but still lots of them, so that insurgents can spawn in houses all around the cities. Read up on accounts of soldiers in combat in Iraq and from what I've asked folk myself. In urban settings like that once word is out that the british/americans are hunting a cache somewhere, once weapons start firing insurgents start coming out from everywhere, if it isnt thier house it's a friends house, and you can quickly become surrounded when before all was quiet. having numerous spawn points in houses would reflect this.
Don't like the idea of limited kits, most insurgents are just men who had rifles anyway as a "status" thing, and the idea of having the bigger weapons at certain caches kept in various places is pretty much exactly what they do anyway, weapons quickly become for the "community" so keeping them stashed at a cache is true to life.
reaally dont like the idea of the mission being to wipe out spawn points. That's not what the forces in Iraq do (i.e. their mission isnt to go around everyone's house and wipe out where they live) thier mission is to search for and destroy weapons caches.
How about having ticket cost for destroying the spawn ponits in the buildings BUT take the points away from the allies
Like when you kill a Civvie think of destroying a spawn point as wiping out a civvies home there should be a similar ticket penalty.
Plus by having spawn points in houses you're more likely to have civvies sitting there healing enemy forces with bandages that they can resupply, and if you can work in maybe a tunnel network (sometimes theyll use hand dug tunnels/sewers to move along underground) That would make the civillian class far more effective, if they can spawn in and move from house to house, reloads and heal the enemy.
Any troops raiding that spawn point will need to watch for civvies, and ask yourself will it really be worth the ticket cost to destroy it? Questioning the morality of what you do is hard in a game, as a game is meant to be fun. If we want reality then getting people to think "should I really do that" when it comes to killing none combatants and their homes is a way to do it.
Don't like the idea of limited kits, most insurgents are just men who had rifles anyway as a "status" thing, and the idea of having the bigger weapons at certain caches kept in various places is pretty much exactly what they do anyway, weapons quickly become for the "community" so keeping them stashed at a cache is true to life.
reaally dont like the idea of the mission being to wipe out spawn points. That's not what the forces in Iraq do (i.e. their mission isnt to go around everyone's house and wipe out where they live) thier mission is to search for and destroy weapons caches.
How about having ticket cost for destroying the spawn ponits in the buildings BUT take the points away from the allies
Like when you kill a Civvie think of destroying a spawn point as wiping out a civvies home there should be a similar ticket penalty.
Plus by having spawn points in houses you're more likely to have civvies sitting there healing enemy forces with bandages that they can resupply, and if you can work in maybe a tunnel network (sometimes theyll use hand dug tunnels/sewers to move along underground) That would make the civillian class far more effective, if they can spawn in and move from house to house, reloads and heal the enemy.
Any troops raiding that spawn point will need to watch for civvies, and ask yourself will it really be worth the ticket cost to destroy it? Questioning the morality of what you do is hard in a game, as a game is meant to be fun. If we want reality then getting people to think "should I really do that" when it comes to killing none combatants and their homes is a way to do it.
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Slightchance
- Posts: 49
- Joined: 2007-12-12 12:14
Wow, I am a bigger noob than I thought, thanks for the clarification of the conventional forces mission, I should have known, this is a realism mod after all. Hmm, I thought insurgents could get different kits from caches already, but as I have never ever played I can only say in my defense that in the guide they have more than just the standard 4 spawnable kits.
I like the morality aspect, which in many cases does mirror real life quite well, but it could as you say wreck the fun. Let us all admit one thing though, in reality, insurgencies are far from fun.
I like the morality aspect, which in many cases does mirror real life quite well, but it could as you say wreck the fun. Let us all admit one thing though, in reality, insurgencies are far from fun.
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Sadist_Cain
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: 2007-08-22 14:47
Exactly, and I think adding that real life element can have one of two effects either you get kids who grow up and think its all fun and games in real life when its not.
Or you get people who have a deeper respect for what these people actually do when they can put themselves in their shoes, even if it's only a game, it can make you think that its something hard to do irl, which it of course is.
With a community like PR I think we'll get the latter rather than the former.
As we have many forces and ex-forces servicemen who play PR aswell as others who merely have an interest and respect for our military services and the combat they're involved in.
A fellow T&T member is in fact ex forces himself and is organizing a sponsored walk for the charity Help for Heroes (a charity to help injured/disabled servicemen and women) Please do visit his donations page here
http://www.justgiving.com/natwainwright Tis for a good Cause!!!
And you aren't a n00b my friend
We all start somewhere, the important bit is that you're thinking in the first place
What does everyone else think about more elaborate houses and the spawn points? Would be great having to raid multiple rooms (LESS NADES!) ,and then getting to the roof only to see insurgents closing in on the house from each side!!! engineer seal the door!!! secure the roof and shooot!
twould be awesome
Or you get people who have a deeper respect for what these people actually do when they can put themselves in their shoes, even if it's only a game, it can make you think that its something hard to do irl, which it of course is.
With a community like PR I think we'll get the latter rather than the former.
As we have many forces and ex-forces servicemen who play PR aswell as others who merely have an interest and respect for our military services and the combat they're involved in.
A fellow T&T member is in fact ex forces himself and is organizing a sponsored walk for the charity Help for Heroes (a charity to help injured/disabled servicemen and women) Please do visit his donations page here
http://www.justgiving.com/natwainwright Tis for a good Cause!!!And you aren't a n00b my friend
We all start somewhere, the important bit is that you're thinking in the first place What does everyone else think about more elaborate houses and the spawn points? Would be great having to raid multiple rooms (LESS NADES!) ,and then getting to the roof only to see insurgents closing in on the house from each side!!! engineer seal the door!!! secure the roof and shooot!
twould be awesome-
Tannhauser
- Posts: 1210
- Joined: 2007-11-22 03:06
What about opium deposits/opium productions? There's an expanding blackmarket for opium in afghanistan.
+1 for the Insurgent rally points
Then, also, it would be a good idea to put a limit zone around the mosque against the GB/USMC ... I heard it was off limits to any coalition soldier, that they're not to walk on the Mosque's ground, or shoot into it. Or is it just because it would anger the locals so much it would go against the peacekeeping objective?
+1 for the Insurgent rally points
Then, also, it would be a good idea to put a limit zone around the mosque against the GB/USMC ... I heard it was off limits to any coalition soldier, that they're not to walk on the Mosque's ground, or shoot into it. Or is it just because it would anger the locals so much it would go against the peacekeeping objective?
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Sadist_Cain
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: 2007-08-22 14:47
No the coalition will lose tickets though for every spawn point inside a house they destroy. this means that you have to decide whether its worth the cost to eliminate the enemy in that area, or whether you can hold out.Jonny wrote:Um, if the coalition cant destroy rally points they will have to camp them, this is REALLY, REALLY BAD for gameplay.
Although a second kind of thing to destroy may add a little more variety.
Like I said for it to be effective youll need more than just 2 obvious exits to a building, Resealable doors could be a very good idea to create more room clearing scenarios. If you're being spawn camped spawn as civvies or at another spawn point (since the idea is there will be lots of them)
So it wouldnt be SO SO BAD for gameplay
read the whole idea first
