Stationary H-AT should be useable by everyone!

ryan d ale · Post by **ryan d ale** » 2007-12-11 14:16

Sure using the enemy stationary ATGMs would be nice for surviving but in-real life, it simply isn't happening. Reality is the name and reality is the game....as a game can be.

darkNight · Post by **darkNight** » 2007-12-11 15:33

ryan d ale wrote:Sure using the enemy stationary ATGMs would be nice for surviving but in-real life, it simply isn't happening. Reality is the name and reality is the game....as a game can be.

Why isn't it happening? Were you in combat to have an opinion about it? How about infiltrating enemy fortified bases and capturing such a stationary TOW to destroy armour with it? It IS realistic...

BTW: If we have this realistic/unrealistic discussion right now - Why do you can't capture enemy jeeps? Finally the dead vehicle occupants didn't lock their car before dying or what? Or do our little, poor soldiers not know how to drive a car and use a MG? That's realistic too, you understand what I mean? xD

ryan d ale · Post by **ryan d ale** » 2007-12-11 17:03

darkNight wrote:Why isn't it happening? Were you in combat to have an opinion about it? How about infiltrating enemy fortified bases and capturing such a stationary TOW to destroy armour with it? It IS realistic...

Because spec-ops are so 1337 at infiltrating bases every day that they forget thier own weapons. Then the spec-ops steal a vehicle to get away (with modded noise reduction). They blast thier way through a checkpoint and then...

Call sign: Bravo Two Zero

WNxKenwayy · Post by **WNxKenwayy** » 2007-12-11 18:09

darkNight wrote:Why isn't it happening? Were you in combat to have an opinion about it? How about infiltrating enemy fortified bases and capturing such a stationary TOW to destroy armour with it? It IS realistic...

BTW: If we have this realistic/unrealistic discussion right now - Why do you can't capture enemy jeeps? Finally the dead vehicle occupants didn't lock their car before dying or what? Or do our little, poor soldiers not know how to drive a car and use a MG? That's realistic too, you understand what I mean? xD

Yes, I was and will be again. I can tell you without a doubt that if I handed a Russian anti-tank missile launcher to my buddies they'd be lucky to point it in the right direction much less acquire a target and shoot it. Have you ever sighted and shot a TOW before? Have you ever reloaded one?

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » 2007-12-11 19:17

Yeah gotta agree with Kenwayy. TOW's are expensive and complex pieces of kit. I think a Javalin (pretty much Brit version, might even be used by the US) costs ~ £30,000 a shot, not bad going. It's a high tech weapon which people spend weeks training to fire. It's not like an RPG which you pick up point the pointy end at the bad guys and pull the trigger. Leave it how it is...

Post by **Masaq** » 2007-12-11 20:08

darkNight wrote:BTW: If we have this realistic/unrealistic discussion right now - Why do you can't capture enemy jeeps? Finally the dead vehicle occupants didn't lock their car before dying or what? Or do our little, poor soldiers not know how to drive a car and use a MG? That's realistic too, you understand what I mean? xD

This has been covered SO many times previously... let's try a new way, a little thought experiment.

Imagine, you're a front line solider for the USMC/PLA/MEC. You have a snazzy uniform, a toy M16/a lovely QBZ-95/a hand-cannon G3, the works.

Now imagine that you're wandering about outside of friendly lines. You've placed a rally point with your five buddies, you're having a laugh together, you knifed some sniper you found on the top of a hill who wasn't with a spotter or even awake, hardly.

You suddenly get hungry. Shit, you realise, it's past dinnertime! You need to get back to your main base for your supper and for a couple of new kits - you can hear a tank coming and you want to pick up a SRAW/Eyrx and blow the tracks off it and dance on the turret in celebration.

You then realise you're ooh, about 2k away from home, on foot, and well, you can't run for more than about 150m without getting out of breath.

Soooo, you look around you, and damn- a USMC/PLA/MEC hummvv/nanjing/vodnik! What's more, the driver's been grenaded out, the gunner was headshotted by a guy he was trying to supress, and the guys in the back got bored and went to look for candy.

Getting closer to it, you see that the keys are in the ignition- great! You pull the two dead guys out, wipe down the inside with some tissues so you don't get soggy blood-bum, and pile in.

Vrrrrooommm, off you set towards your own troops. Vrooom, clank clank (as you ease off the accelerator to go over a bump), then vroommmm again. You're a bit pissed off that it only seems to have one forward gear, but the nitro seems to be pretty good. You can't figure out why a military vehicle's even got nitro, but you don't complain and keep hitting it.

So, you're hurtling towards your own troops at a fair rate of knots. The enemy guys don't shoot at you - well, you're in their truck, aren't you? No-one ever makes vehicles stop for ID checks or anything, after all. Sooo, you make it through enemy lines just fine- by the time they notice you've got the wrong uniforms on, you're 100m past them and giggling. Your dinner is ALMOST in sight when...

...when what? What would YOU do when you see an enemy truck speeding towards your position at high speed? Ey?

I know what happens in my squad when we see an enemy vehicle doing that. We blow the hell out of it with LAT, HAT or a mine, and then laugh at the scoreboard giving us 6 easy kills for the price of one.

Now, imagine YOU'RE still in that truck, marked up as a USMC/PLA/MEC vehicle whilst you speed towards your friends- only YOU'RE the only guys who know you're friendly. To the other 26 guys on your side, you're a big fat target.

Boom.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-12-11 20:15

[R-MOD]Thunder wrote:it was a certain DEV responsible for it, theres even pics!

e-Gor. Epic fail.

Thunder · Post by **Thunder** » 2007-12-11 22:04

darkNight wrote:
BTW: If we have this realistic/unrealistic discussion right now - Why do you can't capture enemy jeeps?

short answer, to cut down on friendly fire accidents on public servers

Post by **Masaq** » 2007-12-11 22:10

[R-MOD]Thunder wrote:short answer, to cut down on friendly fire accidents on public servers

Short answers are boring

Epic tales of heroic acts, daring-do and blue-on-blue non-accidental death are much more fun

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-12-11 22:15

[R-MOD]Masaq wrote:Imagine, you're a front line solider for the USMC/PLA/MEC. You have a snazzy uniform, a toy M16/a lovely QBZ-95/a hand-cannon G3, the works.

Now imagine that you're wandering about outside of friendly lines. You've placed a rally point with your five buddies, you're having a laugh together, you knifed some sniper you found on the top of a hill who wasn't with a spotter or even awake, hardly.

You suddenly get hungry. Shit, you realise, it's past dinnertime! You need to get back to your main base for your supper and for a couple of new kits - you can hear a tank coming and you want to pick up a SRAW/Eyrx and blow the tracks off it and dance on the turret in celebration.

...

Soooo, you look around you, and damn- a USMC/PLA/MEC hummvv/nanjing/vodnik! What's more, the driver's been grenaded out, the gunner was headshotted by a guy he was trying to supress, and the guys in the back got bored and went to look for candy.

Oh, were you in my squad that day?

The candy was tasty, you have to admit.

Post by **Masaq** » 2007-12-12 04:47

[R-MOD]Wasteland wrote:Oh, were you in my squad that day?

The candy was tasty, you have to admit.

The candy was awesome... and I've gone so far off topic, I've forgotten my name. Ah yeah, TOW stuff in enemy bases...

"Get out of enemy bases" is my response, basically.

If you're there for sabotage, you should be doing a better job than relying on the AT emplacements, and if you're trying to cap it then if the other team have let you into their main whilst they have armoured units up, then the armour is clearly being driven by fools and you don't need to worry about killing them, they'll probably fall off a cliff or into a river or something.

darkNight · Post by **darkNight** » 2007-12-12 16:47

[R-MOD]Masaq wrote:This has been covered SO many times previously... let's try a new way, a little thought experiment.

Imagine, you're a front line solider for the USMC/PLA/MEC. You have a snazzy uniform, a toy M16/a lovely QBZ-95/a hand-cannon G3, the works.

Now imagine that you're wandering about outside of friendly lines. You've placed a rally point with your five buddies, you're having a laugh together, you knifed some sniper you found on the top of a hill who wasn't with a spotter or even awake, hardly.

You suddenly get hungry. Shit, you realise, it's past dinnertime! You need to get back to your main base for your supper and for a couple of new kits - you can hear a tank coming and you want to pick up a SRAW/Eyrx and blow the tracks off it and dance on the turret in celebration.

You then realise you're ooh, about 2k away from home, on foot, and well, you can't run for more than about 150m without getting out of breath.

Soooo, you look around you, and damn- a USMC/PLA/MEC hummvv/nanjing/vodnik! What's more, the driver's been grenaded out, the gunner was headshotted by a guy he was trying to supress, and the guys in the back got bored and went to look for candy.

Getting closer to it, you see that the keys are in the ignition- great! You pull the two dead guys out, wipe down the inside with some tissues so you don't get soggy blood-bum, and pile in.

Vrrrrooommm, off you set towards your own troops. Vrooom, clank clank (as you ease off the accelerator to go over a bump), then vroommmm again. You're a bit pissed off that it only seems to have one forward gear, but the nitro seems to be pretty good. You can't figure out why a military vehicle's even got nitro, but you don't complain and keep hitting it.

So, you're hurtling towards your own troops at a fair rate of knots. The enemy guys don't shoot at you - well, you're in their truck, aren't you? No-one ever makes vehicles stop for ID checks or anything, after all. Sooo, you make it through enemy lines just fine- by the time they notice you've got the wrong uniforms on, you're 100m past them and giggling. Your dinner is ALMOST in sight when...

...when what? What would YOU do when you see an enemy truck speeding towards your position at high speed? Ey?

I know what happens in my squad when we see an enemy vehicle doing that. We blow the hell out of it with LAT, HAT or a mine, and then laugh at the scoreboard giving us 6 easy kills for the price of one.

Now, imagine YOU'RE still in that truck, marked up as a USMC/PLA/MEC vehicle whilst you speed towards your friends- only YOU'RE the only guys who know you're friendly. To the other 26 guys on your side, you're a big fat target.

Boom.

Cool story!

Did you ever try to write a book about it? Would be selled as well as hotdogs out of a hotdog delivery van driving through Somalia

- ...was a good joke, wha??

No, let's stop off topicals ^^

Yeah. You're right. There would be too much teamkills.. as we can't talk with the whole team making it clear that YOU are in this truck. Even if we could.. many Publics wouldn't hear it or do it anyway. That was my thought, too. Just were talkin about the "REALITY" in this Mod called Project Reality and how it actually should be to preserve the realism. But if it would be good with sucha realism.. that's another question often simply answered with NO

Just leave those things like they are. Such a profound teamplay is just too much for games/players/game basics like these. Even with big name signs above enemy vehicles occupied by friendlies... many guys (like in ArmA) would still open fire.

My suggestion is cleared. Thanks for discussion

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2007-12-12 19:08

LOL that picture is AWESOME!

is that Mr.D's face on the far left with a disapproving look going "wtf are you doing"??

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-12-12 19:14

I think so

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-12-12 19:44

[R-MOD]Masaq wrote:If you're there for sabotage, you should be doing a better job than relying on the AT emplacements

Actually, in Karkand v2 (I think that was the one... where you had those two bridges close together with a land bridge w/ flag linking them) I would often go spec ops, sneak around the intense bridge fighting, and then get to the enemy's base to plant SLAMs and reload off their trucks. Then I'd use their TOWs to destroy their trucks at the end before sneaking off to a flanking position and starting a flanking squad.

It would crush the opposing team every time, and I don't think it was an altogether unrealistic tactic. It seems to me that spec ops would have the training needed to use enemy weapon systems against them, especially in a sabotage role. If it were possible to make it so that the TOW launchers were team-locked except for spec ops and/or maybe engineers (depending on where the team wants to take those classes), then I'd support that for sure. But since I doubt that's possible, I don't think that un-teamlocking should occur.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-12-16 20:05

Then have 1337 sp3c 0ps sneak into your main and blow everything up using your own defenses, since the entire team is on the front lines and can't be arsed to hunt down 2-3 lone wolfs going for their base?

It's like you'd come to an outpost, ask the guard for an AT launcher and blow up his APC, then say 'thanks' and go.

Valtasar · Post by **Valtasar** » 2007-12-16 21:43

How about this:
Whan you cap a flag that have enemy TOW, they get blown up (or you do it youre self) and frendly TOW spawn on it place.

ConscriptVirus · Post by **ConscriptVirus** » 2007-12-16 22:13

sounds like a good idea ^^

i was thinking just let the stuff that any 10 year old can operate be operable for everyone (LMGs...some other stuff).

And isnt part of military training learning how to use the opponents weaponary. Like in Band of Brothers when theyre blowing up the German artillery pieces with the stielhand grenades. For me, I had no idea how to arm those type of grenades, but the allied soldiers knew, so I'm pretty sure they received some training.