Radar

Sadist_Cain · Post by **Sadist_Cain** » 2007-12-13 02:23

Ok so here goes (radical but oh well)

We completely remove the minimap, soldiers dont have a garmin in their pockets that they follow around)

Except that when you have the pilot kit, the minimap comes back (coding, possible?) now whilest within the chopper you can use the Q spot and any tanks/APC's within a certain radius become visible on the map. Radar

The reason I think of this is it's often more effective on woodland maps to fly very high and shoot down on the enemy, true in desert warfare. However irl choppers like the apaches etc are designed to fly low and hug the ground. The idea is hiding behind the trees, scanning for targets (longbow rader then prioritizes the 16 most deadly targets, and coordinates them through other units on the battlefield

) Popping up and taking the shot with an IR hellfire. Then your targets countermeasures hopefully (for them) come into effect, be them the Shtora-1 or the Arena, the missle might not work.

Ok enough of real life

Now, the missles. TV guides should have one click to correct course, something to make them only useful against buildings and bunkers and such, also less ammo.
The hellfires should be IR and able to be operated by the co pilot, not the pilot. If possible (even if you have to lose TV guided totally) make the co pilot require to look at a screen, to first locate and then lock the target before releasing the missle.

Now my final suggestion in all of this. Give the tank smoek the same effect as Flares. In real life the T-90 for example will automatically release smoke upon being painted by IR. The smoke is designed so it deflects and scatters the oncoming IR beam and hopefully break/degrade the lock.
Plus if possible maybe a speed of of the reload times on the smoke? dunno if thats realistic but I think I've seen tanks/apcs capable of discharging several rounds of smoke one after the other, correct me if I'm wrong someone
If these changes are all implemented then the battle between tanks and choppers will have a radical new twist, that I think will even it up a lot for both sides and make things very interesting instead of being in a tank pwned by an invisible TV, being in a chopper pwned by a tank shell. youll have countermeasures and attacks for both sides

THOUGHTS! everyone?

EDIT.

Just thought is it possible to make it only available in the chopper providing there's a command post present or something like that? or make the command post neccessary for pilots to have minimap?

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2007-12-13 03:08

Sadist_Cain wrote: Now my final suggestion in all of this. Give the tank smoek the same effect as Flares. In real life the T-90 for example will automatically release smoke upon being painted by IR. The smoke is designed so it deflects and scatters the oncoming IR beam and hopefully break/degrade the lock.

Smoke is a visual deterrent, and has little/no effect on IR. The very point of infared imaging is that it allows you to look through things that would otherwise block your sight. I imagine their might be smoke that reduces IR visibility, but I have yet to hear of it, so I don't think this even makes sense. Also, the IR energy is emitted by the target, and picked up by a passive sensor in the seeker head of the missile. There is no beam to scatter.

Sadist_Cain wrote:Plus if possible maybe a speed of of the reload times on the smoke? dunno if thats realistic but I think I've seen tanks/apcs capable of discharging several rounds of smoke one after the other, correct me if I'm wrong someone

I assume that you mean make the reload times faster? I think that would be realistic, but to be honest I haven't used tanks enough to know how long the reload time is. Anyhow, with the current banks of smoke grenade launchers, I think this would probably be a reasonable thing. I don't believe that all the grenades have to be discharged at once, and therefore the break between using smoke could be as large or small as you want. The catch is, in real life you only get like 12 smokes, so use them wisely.

I actually don't know what has been implemented as far as tank smoke goes, I just haven't spent much time in the PR tanks. But if the above hasn't been implemented, I would totally be for it. (The above being limited # of smoke, fire one smoke per countermeasures firing, and no reload time.)

Sadist_Cain · Post by **Sadist_Cain** » 2007-12-13 03:43

BloodBane611 wrote:I imagine their might be smoke that reduces IR visibility, but I have yet to hear of it, so I don't think this even makes sense...

http://direct.bl.uk/bld/PlaceOrder.do?U ... archengine

There you go you can buy some and play with it

Quick wiki search http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_scre ... red_smokes

And like I said check out the Shtora-1 coutermeasures system involved on the T90 that uses IR smoke to help break IR lock when I say IR I also mean Laser, I get confused, if I mean heat seeking Ill say that.

Also, the IR energy is emitted by the target, and picked up by a passive sensor in the seeker head of the missile. There is no beam to scatter.

True in the first part so Its probably my fault for using IR again. The hellfire Isn't heat seeking its SALH (Semi Active Laser Homing) the initial firing of the missle is under inertial guidance. In other words the missles guidance is dumb, itll fire in a straight line.
The missle carrier or a ground soldier will then point a laser designator onto the target (usually at this point the chopper pops above the trees to paint the target)
The tank may see the chopper pop up above the trees (at up to 6000 metres away....) but by then hes dead, as the missle is already in flight searching for its beam to ride down on. so when your chopper pops up it paints the laser target the missle halfway in flight sees a reflection of the laser beam (an IR pulse

) at a certain wavelength and turns straight onto it.

Longbow apache hellfires are different btw, theyre Rader guided by the large longbow radar above the rotorblades

I actually don't know what has been implemented as far as tank smoke goes, I just haven't spent much time in the PR tanks. But if the above hasn't been implemented, I would totally be for it. (The above being limited # of smoke, fire one smoke per countermeasures firing, and no reload time.)

Hell yes for that

with choppers reloading hellfires constantly tanks will soon be outta smoke and outta luck, better rearm or the chopper will have a happy day

Teek · Post by **Teek** » 2007-12-13 08:03

I dislike the shtora, It has not been tested in combat but people tout it like its some sort of anti-missile force field. Sounds a little like propaganda or Fiction to me. Arena however works on a tested principle, like the Phalanx CIWS but with shrapnel instead, But I doubt it has a very good success rate.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2007-12-13 09:51

I'm not sure about the active missile defenses. The electric reactive armor is a better solution I think.

Sadist_Cain · Post by **Sadist_Cain** » 2007-12-13 13:33

it's hard trying to find info on Shtora, really all it is is auto IR smoke dispensers. infrared jammers and sensors plus a system that swings the turret to face the laser designator.

Anyhow I'm not talknig about adding arena or anything like that

I mean having realistic SALH lock on hellfires used by the co pilot.
Smoke for the Tanks (or just T90

) that can break this SALH lock.
Plus a radar system just for piots that incooperates the minimap (hopefully removed from infatry) that can Q spot all tanks within 100/200 metres or something.

That way were pretty much as close as we can get with this engine to the real life battle between tanks and choppers

Mora · Post by **Mora** » 2007-12-13 17:56

isn't possible to code 2 deferent minimaps, one for normal soldiers and one for choppers/airplanes. the one for normal soldiers is just as it is now but the ones for the choppers/airplanes can see every hostile tank/apc/aa etc witch is in range of the radar on the minimap, like someone spotted it.. but it wont disappear like if you normal spot it..

if this is possible all the radar issues have been solved..

Crusader09 · Post by **Crusader09** » 2007-12-14 00:16

Longbow apache hellfires are different btw, theyre Rader guided by the large longbow radar above the rotorblades

There are some variants of hellfire missiles that have laser guidance or radar guidance. And that dome above the rotor blades is a Fire Control Radar target acquisition system which is used to acquire targets while being concealed, nothing to do with "guiding" a missile.

isn't possible to code 2 deferent minimaps, one for normal soldiers and one for choppers/airplanes. the one for normal soldiers is just as it is now but the ones for the choppers/airplanes can see every hostile tank/apc/aa etc witch is in range of the radar on the minimap, like someone spotted it.. but it wont disappear like if you normal spot it..

if this is possible all the radar issues have been solved..

Don't think so...

Most modern tanks, like the T-90 or the Leopard 2A6, have more than just smoke. Particularly the T-90, it carries two infrared jammers on the front of the turret, four laser warning devices, and 3D6 aerosol grenade dischargers. Everything they need to scramble a "paint".

Sadist_Cain · Post by **Sadist_Cain** » 2007-12-14 01:26

*Sigh* so I didn't sit for hours researching the Longbows target Aquisition radar and there is one radar guided hellfire the AGM-114L Longbow Hellfire that is only used on the apache longbow.

We can sit here going back and forth between the facts, what matters is how this can be implemented in PR