Bringing back the commander?

Post by **eggman** » 2006-01-26 09:44

I would like to see the commander role brought back into PR. I know it's an AAS / server admin choice to leave it out. And given how it currently functions, I'm glad to see that!

The following changes would make it more attractive imo:
1. allow a commander to be in a squad (I would say require it)
2. artillery reload times are 10 minutes
3. artillery repair times are 10 minutes
4. UAV reload time is 10 minutes
5. somehow greatly reduce the UAV effectiveness, perhaps it only can detect vehicles
6. UAV repair time 10 miutes
7. no scan
8. supply drop reload times are 10 minutes
9. hook the radar station to the ability to drop supply drops; destroy radar station, no supply drops
10. radar repair time is 10 minutes
11. only enginners can perform repairs (no supply drop repairs, no auto respawn repairs)

I am not so enamored with the commander role that I want to see it brought back. I would more like to see use of the SF class and "covert operations" brought back into PR. Right now, aside from flags, destroying strategic objects is the only objective in the game.

Not saying the above functionality is a perfect description of the capabilities a commander should have, but given the BF2 starting point, something like the above would:
- make the commander less "uber"
- add value to the commander assets
- layer another form of objective / mission into the game
- add artillery back into the game (tho with greatly reduced frequency)
- make the SF class more interesting to play
- make the enginner class more useful

I would mostly see a smart commander raining artillery down on the nearest flag for the enemy once his side captures a flag in the AAS order. As soon as it goes grey, pick a spawn point and rain down artillery. On long reload times this would be rare, but good co-ordination could make this very effective. With enough players on the map, an SF squad could prevent this from happening by destroying the assets.

Although I realy dislike the wall hack / UAV as it currently behaves ... once it becomes visible we're missing out on a nifty lil gadget that .. while mostly just eye candy .. is kinda neat.

egg

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2006-01-26 09:59

10 minutes is a LONG time on the battlefield. I think that is a little harsh.

Post by **Hitperson** » 2006-01-26 10:30

10 mins is a bit long it only takes 6 to reload a M270 MLRS (at least i think could be less)

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-01-26 11:13

I'd love to see the commander brought back and used to coordinate the squads on the battlefield if nothing else.

drygar · Post by **drygar** » 2006-01-26 12:03

yee nice eggman ... I think 10min its fine ... so commander must "think" what the best sulutions is to drop it,for the task he want to achieve at that moment.

My personal view regards SF is ..... I love to blow things up!

Just remember to "clock" the arty when it´s falls ... heheh then 10min + it´s time to prone

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-01-26 13:18

I agree with you Nikovk, I think the commanders should be mainly used to issue orders. So far, from what I've played, members in squads actually work togethere here at prrm. So, if we could just get the squads to work together. I have seen a few times, but it's impossible to quardinate the whole team through chat. This is where the commander will shine. It would be really cool if somehow, maybe, he'd be a mobile spawn point for squad leaders. As for the assets buisness, I'd leave him the ability to call down airstrikes(very long reload time) and use the supply drop once in a while. I'd prefer a combat commander who will fight along side his troops as our lieutenant in our armies would.

Post by **Saobh** » 2006-01-26 13:48

Well i was going to say that 10" is really long , but its true that its pretty nice playing on a map without having constant art falling on your head.
but when you say 10" to repair the assests, do you mean that the engy is going to be stuck with his rench all that time ? just for doing that the guy merits a medal

But one thing bothers me with getting the commander back. With PR you know were the main fight is going to be, so the commanders ability to zoom AND spot the enemy, well thats basicly having a constant UAV ( and a very annoying one with all the "enemy spotted spam ).
I dont know if anything has been already decided on this, but i beleive its an important one as it kills all element of surprise.

see you all on the battlefield.

Post by **TheRealFritz** » 2006-01-26 14:41

Eggman, there's another commander ability which is very annoying: the commander can zoom into the map and actually see anybody, kind of an eye in the sky. This works regardless of UAV and Scan. He can then spot people for his own team, kind of like providing a manual UAV.

So even with the above changes, the Commander would still be Uber.

Post by **eggman** » 2006-01-26 16:14

forgot about the zoom thing .. so that would have to go too.

as far as repair times and reload times .. obviously I'd not thought that through hehe.

How about 6 minute reload times and 3 minute repair times, where 3 minutes means the enginner has to stand there and repair for 3 minutes (if you were silly enogh to get the assets blown up).

I really do agree that the commander's ability to co-ordinate battlefield activities can be a GREAT help to improving the level of play.

If you have things working, it's great to have a small squad defend, a large squad or two attack the objective, and a small squad sitting on the next AAS objective. That kinda thing is very tedious to do over chat, when a commander could do it all within the tools in the game.

I think the biggest problem with this is that a lot of stuff is not exposed, it's hard coded in the engine. I see nowhere to affect reload times and artillery that reloads every 30 seconds and an all seing eye view of the battlefield is just not acceptable imo.

egg

beta · Post by **beta** » 2006-01-26 16:28

Bringing back the commander is now becoming more and more important.

Since squads are now working together within the squad, we need to get the squads to work with eachother.

This is very hard to do (but not impossible) over the chat system. It requires lots of annoying CAPS WORDS, but eventually, if you spam it enough the SL of each squad will see it and maybe respond to it.

If there are too many problems with getting the commander's "uber" abilities taken down a notch, there is another solution (it might be equally as hard though)

Try to get inter-squad leader communication through VOIP or a special chat font/colour.

As I see it, the most useful aspect of the commander that is needed in PRMM (at the moment) is the coordination the commander can provide.

F.N.G. · Post by **F.N.G.** » 2006-01-26 19:32

Squad Leader comms:

I think it would be good for the squad leaders to be able to communicate in the COM channel. Normally only the commander hears chatter from the squad leaders on this channel, but If squad leaders could hear each other also, it would be alot more helpfull. The CO could monitor the comms and distribute orders to the squads and the squads could coordinate with eachother.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-26 20:56

I would like to see the commander come back, but only in a place where he is far removed from the battle, way back at the main (somwhere the enemy can't get him because you wouldn't want to be stabbed in the back while looking at your map). However, the only way he should be brought back is:

Direction roll ONLY. No combat for this guy. He just tells the squad where to go, nothing more.

No artillery, no arty, that stuff gets old fast. He can help direct it (i.e. relaying calls from player A in the field to player B on the arty) but no more point and click, that stuff is no fun. Plus, in the case of arty, a 5-6 shell barage isn't very realistic, unless that gets the job done, otherwise those shells will fall (supplies permitting) indefinitely, which I have no problem with, as long as it's player controlled (spawn points would have t be moved in-doors).

No more full zoom, as many of you have agreed.

Only able to direct supply vehicles, trucks and aircraft, whatever. No more magical box.

F.N.G. · Post by **F.N.G.** » 2006-01-26 22:58

I think it would be cool to have a supply or medic hummer drop instead of a supply drop. It is mobile could be used for swift supply or healing in the front.

Post by **CodeRedFox** » 2006-01-26 23:18

I personaly favor what FNG said
"squad leaders to be able to communicate in the COM channel."

This is a needed feature.

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2006-01-26 23:36

Yes squad leaders should use the commanders channel to talk amougst themselves!!

Squads right now working great, but inter-squad tactics are very hard to organise!

A commander brought back but his uber abilities should be taken away.

Take away his zoom, take away fast reloading arty, and if his assets are taken out, have only an engineer fix it, and it wont auto come back.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-01-27 01:53

'[R-PUB wrote:BrokenArrow']
Direction roll ONLY. No combat for this guy. He just tells the squad where to go, nothing more.

I have to disagree with you on this. I don't think anyone would want to play a commander who can only issue orders and supplies, there is no fun in it at all. With the artillery the player at least feels they have some control of the combat and that they are actually helping in a tangible way. Also, the commander is only in charge of at most 63 other people, so basically two platoons. His rank would be probably be a first lieutenant so he wouldn't likely sit back at even a front line hq. He might not be in the first wave of men, but he would be in the combat with his men. Of course a commander charging headlong into a flag isn't a good thing, but he could be behind his men covering them as they charge.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-27 02:04

Alright, but if he sees direct combat then he has to loose the arty and supplies because those end up being abused by players who play for points and rank. Also in BF2 he wouldn't have 63 people to command, only 31, so his rank would be even lower. Either way, I don't want to see him get arty or any point and click weapons of mass (by the scale of the map) destruction. Having arty rain in on you knowing its coming from one guy with the finger of God is no fun at all. Artillery is a much more team-based weapon, and should be represented as such. I have no problem with seeing him on the front line, but then it is even more important to see that he has nothing besides his directions and his own rifle to help out with. Arty and CAS needs to be player operated.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-01-27 02:17

I agree with that. I already have suggested an airstrike symbol so maybe he should get that. And if you guys put in mobile artillery then maybe he could put a symbol on the map for that also. I'd prefer the commander be mainly for organizing the squads. I think that this community will be far more capable to do this.

But why couldn't the commander control 63 people? Is project reality not going to support a 64 player server?

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-27 02:20

Divide 64 by 2

(two teams). I think the airstrike would be a little much as well. Perhaps he and the squadleaders are allowed to call in airstrikes from players in planes, who can try to assist them in that. But in general I don't like the idea of any airstrike, artillery or supply box from nowhere.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-01-27 02:30

Stupid me, to think I'm supposed to be gifted in math...

By airstrike I meant what you wanted, it would be up to the pilots to deliver the ordinance.

As for mobile artillery, I don't know how you guys are handeling that, but would it be hard to heavily modify the tank to act as mobile artillery. Couldn't you guys just change the drop rate of the shell, it's speed, and it's explosive power. Maybe make it as strong as a jet bomb is right now? I also know that mobile artillery is only heavily armored enough to protect it's crew from small arms fire. Maybe make it as weak as the mobile aa, maybe weaker. Also, it shouldn't be allowed to shoot bellow a certain angle(maybe like 30 degrees).