Recoil: G3A3 compared to L85 or AK47

arneboe · Post by **arneboe** » 2007-12-19 22:12

I have shot the G3 A LOT.. and various other weapons in 7,62x51 NATO.. some 5.56 weapons as well.. in my experience the G3 has a very heavy recoil that force the front of the barrel upwards and to the right.. this is most noticable when going full auto, but applies to semi auto as well... compared to the 5.56 which is a lot lighter.. in my experience the 5.56 was mainly a H&K SL8.. the recoil was much lighter i could shoot two or three shots in rapid succession and still be on target in semi auto fire with almost no effort.. the G3 takes a bit more time to get used to to do this.. the recoil was ligher and went more verically directly up, but still a tiny fraction to the right..

Don't know if this information is useful, but there it is anyways.. if you need anything else just PM

Hx. Abuseifer

BLUFOR-73 · Post by **BLUFOR-73** » 2007-12-19 22:42

Any chance of lowering the M16 recoil for 0.7? It's almost impossible to kill someone at 200 yards with it which isn't realistic. In this case realism = gameplay as it's incredibly frustrating when you have to pull down your ironsights an inch after each shot.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-12-20 01:07

arneboe wrote:I have shot the G3 A LOT.. and various other weapons in 7,62x51 NATO.. some 5.56 weapons as well.. in my experience the G3 has a very heavy recoil that force the front of the barrel upwards and to the right.. this is most noticable when going full auto, but applies to semi auto as well... compared to the 5.56 which is a lot lighter.. in my experience the 5.56 was mainly a H&K SL8.. the recoil was much lighter i could shoot two or three shots in rapid succession and still be on target in semi auto fire with almost no effort.. the G3 takes a bit more time to get used to to do this.. the recoil was ligher and went more verically directly up, but still a tiny fraction to the right..

Don't know if this information is useful, but there it is anyways.. if you need anything else just PM

Hx. Abuseifer

So the question to you is, what should the visible recoil ratio be for PR. Lets say the M16=1 unit of recoil. What would the G3 be listed in your opinion.

TeRR0R · Post by **TeRR0R** » 2007-12-20 01:15

Look, the recoil from the g3a3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKahe01OdQ4

Full auto is not recommended...

or my beloved MG3 with the same rounds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAmIUdPf9-A&NR=1

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-12-20 01:23

bost wrote:Look, the recoil from the g3a3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKahe01OdQ4

Full auto is not recommended...

or my beloved MG3 with the same rounds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAmIUdPf9-A&NR=1

Indeed. I'm worried that the G3's recoil will still be implemented incorrectly in .7. Dbzao was referring to it (possibly) as having about double that of the M16 and in my respectful opinion I think that is incorrect. We had all kinds of information floating around like this yet the G3 was still sorely modeled, in recoil standards, for a few releases though it was perceived as correct I believe. I definitely don't want any game balancing being done in this area. Not to say that current recoils wouldn't work or that the Dev team is incapable of making it fun and playable but it'd be nice to see it done spot on and the G3 having only double the recoil of the M16 just isn't right imo.

Teek · Post by **Teek** » 2007-12-20 02:45

2 times the recoil as the M16 would be great if the M16 had a decent amount of recoil. The M16 Has buffer springs and a inline stock firing tiny 5.56 rounds, the G3 has a cut out solid stock firing very large 7.62 rounds.

If any thing the M16 Should be less that the bullet momentum (stock/springs) while the G3 should be more (lack of Stock/springs)

Post by **dbzao** » 2007-12-20 05:00

It's going to be good guys...

Jonny, I have this information from our mil. advisor Eddie Baker:

7.62 x 51mm M80 Ball and Clones [M14, G3, HK21]
Projectile Weight: 9.46-9.65 g
Muzzle Velocity: 838-854 m/s

7.62 x 51mm M118LR Special Ball [US Army M24 / USMC M40A3]
Projectile Weight: 11.34 grams
Muzzle Velocity: 786.38 m/s [M24= 792 m/s] [M40A3= 777 m/s]

7.62 x 51mm Hirtenberger HG Sniper Ball Match [MEC SSG69 PI (Eventually)]
Projectile Weight: 11.0 grams
Muzzle Velocity: 760 m/s

7.62 x 54mm LPS Ball and Clones [Mosin-Nagant, PKM]
Weight: 9.6 grams
Muzzle Velocity: 870 m/s

Russian 7N1 Sniper Ball and Clones [MEC SV-98 and SVD]
Weight: 9.85 grams
Muzzle Velocity: 830 m/s

Russian 7N14 Sniper Ball (Post-1999) [Russian SV-98 and SVD]
Weight: 9.85 grams
Muzzle Velocity: 835 m/s [SVD = 830 m/s] [SV-98 = 837 m/s]

Can you recalculate damages of these rifles, please?

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-12-20 05:42

Good enough for me, cheers to a job well done...man 0.7 looks amazing!

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-12-20 14:48

Personally I think the weapons of the same model should have the same recoil ranges except if they have different attachments which change the weight distribution of the weapon. The more weighty versions (eg ones with full sized barrels, scopes, UGL's, forgrips, flashlights etc) should have lower recoil values at the expense of added movement related deviation (ie ObjectTemplate.deviation.setTurnDev and ObjectTemplate.deviation.setSpeedDev values increased). This would simulate the added difficulty of aligning a heavier weapon on target and would counteract the reduction in recoil.

Also I believe that weapons should recoil to the right and return to their former positions, instead both to the left and right. This would simulate the turning action present due to the barrel being off from the pivot point (body). The return to the former position simulates the gun returning to the natural firing position and can be achieved with the, "ObjectTemplate.recoil.goBackOnRecoil" modifier being set to 1. Currently, only some of the LMG's have this modifier AFAIK.

EDIT: Strictly speaking we should refer to the "recoil" in this context as "muzzle climb" as recoil is the rearward force which brings the weapon back and eventually translates into upward and sidewards rotation, aka "muzzle climb".

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2007-12-21 00:24

Seen it before, impressive imo because its him who fails to keep on working. The fire is just from firing so many bullets, so quickly, a victim of its own success?

Dip it in a bucket of water for a second and I bet it'd carry on working fine. Also shows how cheap the ammo is, 10 cents a bullet?

Is the chinese support kit a PKM or just an ak47 with a 75 round magazine

arneboe · Post by **arneboe** » 2007-12-22 02:10

Jonny i think the second model would be the best choice..

@VipersGhost: If the M16 recoil was "1" i would say the G3 was 2.5 or thereabouts

Keep up the Good Work Jonny!

KP · Post by KP » 2007-12-23 12:08

Some good work here. Do I see [R-CON]ship coming on?

Will be interesting to see how this pans out.