Loss of control in air vehicles with critical damage

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-01-31 03:46

Would it be possible to create a loss of control effect when an air vehicle is damaged? I think it would be sweet to see an enemy jet spin into the ground after it was torn apart by cannon fire. The explosion effect aircraft in BF2 have is hardly realistic, in fact I believe it's pretty rare that a jet simply blows apart. I remember hearing an account of a fighter pilot who shot two missles into a mig which didn't explode, but just went out of control.

For jets, at a certain point in their low health they could be configured to start to turn and barrel roll causing them to dive into the ground in flames. The same can be implemented for choppers which could start to spin wildly as if their tail rotor went out.

[7E]ToJo · Post by **[7E]ToJo** » 2006-01-31 04:02

Now this would be a cool addition. Would be even better if instead of a steady pull to one side or the other that it could resemble fighting the stick and give variable spin on helo for example so that while flying it could be countered to keep it straight by pushing in other directions but having to keep adjusting a little more then less to keep it straight. Hope you understood that.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2006-01-31 04:08

I agree.

I like this idea very much. I have longed to see this kind of effect for aircraft in the Battlefield series.

As far as the aircraft not exploding, well, there is a lot of dependancies there. For instance, it depends mostly on what armament the aircraft is carrying. If it's carrying 2,000lbs of explosives and 6 Air to Air missles, chances are when the aircraft gets struck by the explosion of a missle, it's going to go boom. Also, you cannot tell me that Jet Fuel is not explosive. Jet Fuel is HIGHLY explosive.

However, some Air to Air missiles do not always make contact with thier target. A lot of missles are designed to detonate within a certain proximity of thier target. Because of this many jets are simply severly damaged.

In most cases, an AA missle will, indefinatly, completely destroy an aircraft. You have to remember, AA missles are HIGHLY explosive and designed to destroy. Nothing merciful about it.

What I do think should be the case however, is when aircraft are hit with ground based AA cannon fire and Jet cannon fire they should never explode. At best they should catch on fire and, as stated in your original post, suffer severe loss of control and either force the pilot to bail and possibly live or go down with the plane in a blazing fireball of glory...

So, a re-cap:

1. One AA Missle Destroys ANY Aircraft, without question. (this can be limited from becomming over powering by limiting ammunition of AA missles.)

2. Cannon fire only disables aircraft and/or catches them on fire.

Wether or not #2 is possible or not has yet to be discovered by coders. With my limited knowledge of the BF2 Code it is IMPOSSIBLE to stop something from completely destroying an object without reducing the damage it does.

Overall though, very good suggestion...

worst 3 · Post by **worst 3** » 2006-01-31 04:35

i like the idea alot.

i agree that an aa missle will blow a jet up easaly. now all we need is to make the missles beter at homeing in, (also are they faster then bullets)

the canon fire should disalbe the jet and also but not hurt the pilot unles the cockpit is hit. i be good if he losses control realy bad becuse i have been in the aa and the worst thin is when the air craft u shoot down lands on you. if only they had radar 2 but i think that would make them to good.

helicopter it would be cool if they spun out of control if shot at (like what happens when there is no pilot, could u simply code it so when low hp the helicopter thinks and act like there is no pilot?)

i would love to see the idea look real cool on the big open map with all the tanks to see this (love that map)

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2006-01-31 07:27

I dont think randomized spins/rolls or whatever can be made the way BF2 is layed out. One can make fixed effects though. For example when a helo is at 10%, slap on another engine in the rear to try to spin it unless corrected. Or for a jet, an engine on the wing that start to roll it.

But it would be neat if it was a bit more than just burn&blow, heh.

Post by **Hitperson** » 2006-01-31 08:16

AAM's work like an airbourn sawn off shot gun thier main point is to explode and shred the control surfaces but you do get the odd skin-skin kill

drygar · Post by **drygar** » 2006-01-31 08:47

Yee nice ideas! "thumbs up"

MonkeyNutz · Post by **MonkeyNutz** » 2006-01-31 11:25

I was thinking about something along the same lines. Forgive me if this has already been suggested (I searched under location and area damage and found nothing) but I think it would work well with the suggestion above.

Couldn't all vehicles be broken up into damages locations:

Minor
Count yourself lucky, vehicles health stays in tact, hud flickers hinting minor electrical damage or speed fluctuates hinting at slight engine damage.

Major
Vehicle health depletes at 10% per second before either coming to a stand still or blowing up depending on what has been hit. IE Major electrical systems failure, engine failure, tail of a chopper.

Critical
Vehical heatlh depletes at 25% per second - You going to need to ditch / bail or run away as soon as you see that first 25% go. Fuel tanks / Engine are burning. Run Forrest!

More then likely you'll tell me not possible with BF2 which will squash this idea but it's just an example to work hand in hand with the above.

Zepheris Casull · Post by **Zepheris Casull** » 2006-02-01 10:54

the different vehicle health status effect is possible, what is not possible however is coding the specific component of the vehicle to be damaged. the vehicle is a single entity, and the best we can do in BF2 is to have different dmg based on different sides being hit.

if someone actually manages to SOMEHOW code the specific component of the vehicle into the game, then that would solve a lot of the problem we're having with the APC and tank balances not to mention gunships as well.

Why?! · Post by **Why?!** » 2006-02-01 22:57

'[R-DEV wrote:GRB']So, a re-cap:

1. One AA Missle Destroys ANY Aircraft, without question. (this can be limited from becomming over powering by limiting ammunition of AA missles.)

2. Cannon fire only disables aircraft and/or catches them on fire.

I don't know about that. In Falcon 4.0 a missile will rarely instantaneously kill an aircraft. I have only seen that happen several times. Hitperson had the right idea. An air-to-air missile will rarely ever actually hit its target, it will usually get close and then explode, causing a large amount of shrapnel to pierce the aircraft in numerous places. If you get hit with a missile in Falcon 4.0 (and the same applies to enemy aircraft), you will rarely be killed right away. However you are effectively "knocked out" because most of the avionics are dead, and control surfaces are also likely damaged.

Practically what all this means is that a plane will be knocked out on the first shot, but will almost never be destroyed. I would like to have the plane catch fire and explode within several seconds after a missile hit, but realistically ingame I have always hated giving the other pilot having a chance to bail out. It always results in a suicide and no kill for you, and has annoyed the hell out of me since 1942, to FH, and now onto BF2.

Post by **Happy** » 2006-02-01 23:12

'[R-DEV wrote:GRB'] Also, you cannot tell me that Jet Fuel is not explosive. Jet Fuel is HIGHLY explosive.

Flammable, YES. Explosive, No.
EDIT: GRB and I talked and it depends on your definition of explosion whether or not it is explosive.

Why?! · Post by **Why?!** » 2006-02-02 00:51

'[R-PUB wrote:=BONG=Happy']Flammable, YES. Explosive, No.

In F4.0 there is usually what seems like a 60%-70% chance that the plane catches fire after a missile hit, which results in a fatal explosion pretty soon. Usually within 5-15 seconds.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-02-02 02:02

That could be ordinance or oxygen that supplies the pilot?

DEDMON5811 · Post by **DEDMON5811** » 2006-02-02 02:26

Well if the fuel tank is hit. you will get a nargly explosion.

Zepheris Casull · Post by **Zepheris Casull** » 2006-02-02 10:44

depends on what hit it really, all combat aircraft are made with self sealing fuel tanks. if the bullet simply goes through it, then there's nothing much really, no boom, no big fire candle in the sky. just a beat up aircraft with a hole in it's frame, if the bullet smacked your hydraulics too then well good luck. this is valid up to a certain size of course, nothing is gonna save you if you get smacked by an 88 cm flak, though this is probably only a concern for a slower craft.

problem is a lot more serious if the one in trouble is the engine, if the engine is leaking it's fuel intake then you shut it down and pray, or if your in a single engine fighter like falcon... well... bail.. and then pray.

Stu007 · Post by **Stu007** » 2006-02-02 11:04

kerosine will be explosive in a compressed atmosphere, which it will be at a guess. If you just chuck a match into a patch of kerosine, it will just burn. Depends on chemical and environmental circumstances.

Also, warheads don't respond to well to explosions, so yeah.