US Naval Avation

[jwgarris]

With the improvements to the Air Warfare in the upcoming release I have been toying around with the idea of getting some new aircraft in for the US.

1. The inclusion of Navy/Marine based Hornets. Yea, Yea I know that F-18 is already modeled by DICE. The Single Seater. I'm talking about the 2 Seater F-18's. If tanks cannot self-operate then why shouldn't airpower. Pilots and NFO's.

• A. F-18 Strike/Fighter Hornet - Typical Hornet suited for Air 2 Air or Air 2 Ground. Typical Fighter/CAS aircraft just taking the PR concept of Teamwork to the Sky.
  
  -Pilot has control of AA and Cannons
  
  -NFO has control of any LGB's and Ground Targeting

• B. F-18 Strike Growler - Something I have been thinking about with all the remarks I've seen about .7 Anti-Air. The Growler is the Navy/USMC's new EW Aircraft that is slated to replace the EA-6B Prowler.
  
  This Aircraft would be something used in Support of other Aircraft. It is not used in the typical Fighter Role. Not used for Air to Air Combat as it only carries two Wingtip mounted Shortrange Air to Air missles for Defense. Its not used in the CAS role as its Air to Ground missles are Sparrows that lock used for eliminating Radar Threats.
  
  -Pilot has flight and control of Defensive AA missles (Growler has no cannon for extra EW equipment in the nose).
  
  -NFO has control of Sparrow Missles (used for taking out Radars) that would lock on to any Ground Anti-Air weapon using a lock-on/radar system (tricky coding part). Also (another coding mission impossible) A temporary jamming "weapon" that would create false heat signatures for ground radars to track.

So Basicaly (in Theory) the addition of these aircraft to replace other aircraft on Carrier Based missions would promote even more Teamwork in the Air. One Strike Aircraft(Growler), One Strike/Fighter per map.

I'm just bouncing this off you guys to see what the general consensus is... and to hear thoughts on the idea. Ideas for coding such a thing to Make EW a thing of the Future in PR.

[Anxiety]

jwgarris = genious

I like this idea alot...

I love flying but i hate piloting also , if snipers can attention for lone wolfing ( now they need 2 in a squad) then why can't jets ???

[MAINERROR]

Cause we have we also need guys on the ground!

[jwgarris]

Cause we have we also need guys on the ground!

Your talking 4 guys Max with 2 Aircraft... Add a Squad Leader with a Soflam and you have a Air Secton with FAC.

There is always the hardcore forum grunt mentality that if you add something with two seats its going to destroy the game.

Not Everyone in the Military is a Grunt, Not everyone in the Air is a Pilot.

[Swe_Olsson]

lovely idea, just need a model now

[KP]

Go ahead and make them, then we'll see

[Viper5]

The USMC only operates the Hornet, not the Super Hornet. And only for a few more years. It also operates the AV-8B Harrier II Plus, which I believe is being made by the PR Team in counjunction with GR.7 Harrier. Not sure what purpose a Growler would be aside from wtfpwning the Tunguska/Shilka

[jwgarris]

lovely idea, just need a model now

That's not the Problem I forsee, as I can model and I'm firing up my Maya now. I just want to hear some ideas codewise. I've done some Tweaking before in BF2 but I am not a coder, just an/a Artist/Tweaker.
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The USMC only operates the Hornet, not the Super Hornet. And only for a few more years.

I'm not sure where your going with this because the Super Hornet was never mentioned in this thread, but...

The F/A-18D is Operated by the USMC and is a Two Seated Hornet not a Super Hornet. The Point is they are in Service now, if you think they shouldn't be in because they are slated to be replaced, then I guess I'll go play BF2142.

It also operates the AV-8B Harrier II Plus, which I believe is being made by the PR Team in counjunction with GR.7 Harrier.

Point being? Even the Harrier is slated to be replaced by the new VTOL X-35B should the devs not finish the Harrier because of this?

Not sure what purpose a Growler would be aside from wtfpwning the Tunguska/Shilka.

Well, My Goal was to add some innovation, ya know, Make PR that much different then vBF2. Inspire some Teamwork in the air. You know an Aircraft that seems pretty weak by itself, but teamed up with a wingman can achieve something. Possibly some Realism, it's kind've like if you expect Boots on the Ground, You know the Marines are there. If your Birds are in the sky, You know the Prolwers and the Growlers are there.

[Viper5]

Im saying its not worth making a new model when they have access to a finished F18 Model, a nearly finished Harrier Model, and a finished JSF. The Growler wouldnt be able to do anything special in PR except maybe have an auto-lock on w/o Laser Designation on AA Vehicles

[jwgarris]

Im saying its not worth making a new model when they have access to a finished F18 Model, a nearly finished Harrier Model, and a finished JSF.

Theres one thing in common with all these Aircraft. They are single seaters. You are missing the general concept of my vision. This isn't just something new and shiny to play with. Did you know that through the Naval Flight Pipeline all pilots that go for jets are trained as Single Seaters till a certain point then they realize that about 80% of them will fly in a multi-crewed jet (not including the Props, and Helos).

The Goal of this project is the same as the Multi-Crewed Tank in PR. Add Teamwork in the Air.

The Growler wouldnt be able to do anything special in PR except maybe have an auto-lock on w/o Laser Designation on AA Vehicles

The said could've been said about Transport Helos, and Transport Trucks. Who knew that this dedicated population of PR would rise up and want to Go around building objects with an Unarmed Truck, or Fly troops ferry troops back and forth from a Carrier with no real guns or weapons that the pilot themselves could defend themself with.

Also your missing the point of the Growler, I want the NFO on the Growler to be able to launch a "weapon" that for a short durration "Jams" Radars by putting up fake targets. An invisible powered up flare basically that lasts a little bit longer.

[Viper5]

1. Thats not how Radar Jamming works
2. We dont have the people on a server for that.
3. Transport helos have something other things dont: A fast and relatively safe way to travel. Same with Transport Trucks. Large amount of people transported.
4. No equivalent for other factions AFAIK
5. Again, wasted time for no gameplay changes (Asthetic)
6. Yes I did know that about the Pipeline. I also know the US Navy isnt in this Modification with the exception of the USS Essex
7. The purpose of the multi-passenger tank is realism. Modern MBTs have separate gunners and drivers. Most modern fighter jets do not, the only that do AFAIK being the F18 D/F/G

In conclusion: Not needed and attention could be focused elsewhere on new models that are needed, as well as coding elsewhere.

[jwgarris]

1. Thats not how Radar Jamming works

It is most possible way for it in a game (especially as it is partially already in game with the concept of altering the flares), I have seen the same effect on other games. IRL You don't get Shocked by Paddles and magically come back to life and ready to fight, but its a Gameplay decison made by the Devs to keep the game fun.

2. We dont have the people on a server for that.

Not Sure what you are jabbing at...

3. Transport helos have something other things dont: A fast and relatively safe way to travel. Same with Transport Trucks. Large amount of people transported.

Dual Seated Jets have other things to do as well. An NFO on my proposed Fighter could also be used for Recon as he would be able to Spot Enemy Activity that the Pilot being busy with Flight Controls would not be able to manage. An NFO often acts as an Observer in A2A Combat and directs the Pilot on what Maneuver the Pilot should perform to aquire greatest Target Picture.

4. No equivalent for other factions AFAIK

For the UK The Tornado GR4 with its ALARM Missles for an EW

5. Again, wasted time for no gameplay changes (Asthetic)

No Adding an M16A4 Class and M16A4 with RIS Grip would be a waste of gameplay. Addig Dual Seated Jets changes gameplay.

6. Yes I did know that about the Pipeline. I also know the US Navy isnt in this Modification with the exception of the USS Essex

Point Being? This is Community Modding where Canadian, Polish, Russian, ect are being modded and added every day. The US Navy goes hand in hand with the USMC, (i.e. Navy Corpsman) I also have plans to model the new Naval Riverine Craft manned by Naval Special Warfare.

7. The purpose of the multi-passenger tank is realism. Modern MBTs have separate gunners and drivers. Most modern fighter jets do not, the only that do AFAIK being the F18 D/F/G

Tornado, F-15, EA-6B, Certain Models of the Eurofighter Typhoon, Su-27, Su-30, eh... I'll stop now.

In conclusion: Not needed and attention could be focused elsewhere on new models that are needed, as well as coding elsewhere.

This is a Community Mod Project, I was not under the impression that you were heading the decision making on what Community Members do with there skills that they have. So what should I model then? This is just a basing point if Sucessful. The Dual Seat coding could be applied to UK Aircraft such as the Tornado, Russian Mini Mod, ect.

[TF6049]

The USMC only operates the Hornet, not the Super Hornet. And only for a few more years.

Ever heard of "Combined Arms?"

You see Air Force A-10's taking air support requests from the Army troops.

[TF6049]

Just use the F-15E. It's not carrier based I think, but we can use it in land based roles.

Or the big cargo plane in Al Basrah could be made in to an flyable AWACS plane...