7.62 Minigun or pea shooter?Why so weak?

zangoo · Post by **zangoo** » 2007-12-28 04:02

couldnt you just make a new sound that would just have 10 shots in one clip, i think that would work not sure.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-12-28 04:17

nedlands1 wrote:You can be devious and put the batch size of a value greater than one. This would make the weapon fire multiple rounds per shot and could artificially increase the ROF. IF you wanted, say 6000 RPM, you could set the ROF at "600" (RPM) and the batch size at "10". I'm not sure if the sound would properly work though.

You and jonny seem to have some tricks up your sleeves and some good info. R-Con anyone? Lets see some youtube videos of what you guys are working on

Soulja · Post by **Soulja** » 2007-12-28 04:17

zangoo wrote:couldnt you just make a new sound that would just have 10 shots in one clip, i think that would work not sure.

Would probably just run together and sound odd.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-12-28 05:21

Yeah you wouldn't be able to distinguish individual shots at 100 rounds per second, come to think of it.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2007-12-28 06:17

Also does batch size really decrease the server load? If the problem is too many projectiles (which is why its not being maxed right now) then the basic creation and tracking of the projectiles is the issue. Running 6000 RPM by having each round batch into 5 rounds would just make it lag as before, right? Or does batching do something that works around this problem?

Are you serious? The US Army uses miniguns on almost exclusively 160th SOAR Helos. The vast majority of US helos use the M240 (US Designation for FN MAG. M240 and the GPMG are both derived from the MAG.) Dont be moronic.

Reference please.

Translation: "0mg I once saw Blackhawk Down and the Miniguns pwn3d!111." Since your knowledge amounts to a Hollywood Movie, I'll help you out No, they are not that accurate. Its a spray and pray weapon. Youd be lucky to get within 5-10m of a target thats at 300m from a moving helo with a Sniper Rifle...

Seriously dude, if you have something to add, back it up. Don't get on peoples cases about what is and is not true. I have satisfactorily stated that there as of now we have no data suggesting that GAU-134s are or are not mounted on Blackhawks as a general rule. If you have specific information to offer, then please offer it and cite a source. If you don't, you are not helping by coming in and citing your opinion as the source of all nowledge.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-12-28 06:35

BloodBane611 wrote:Also does batch size really decrease the server load? If the problem is too many projectiles (which is why its not being maxed right now) then the basic creation and tracking of the projectiles is the issue. Running 6000 RPM by having each round batch into 5 rounds would just make it lag as before, right? Or does batching do something that works around this problem?

Batching solves the problem of a low RPM. It however would put a greater load on the server but to what extent I do not know. I suppose it would be like 10 people unloading their G3A3's at once. I shall try it.

Anderson29 · Post by **Anderson29** » 2007-12-28 07:30

well i did a few air assaults in iraq...all i remember seeing on the BH's were 50cals...never rode on an special ops bird...saw em drop some seals off a couple of times...thats about it.

oh... and if all the assets we use ar sf... give us the sf hummer. 50cal main turret..240b mounted on the rear.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-12-28 07:55

Okay I have accurately modelled the M134D minigun which is probably the one featured on blackhawks today. I have used the manufacturer's spec sheet for information pertaining to the weapon.

Characteristics Incorparated

3000 RPM (600 RPM combined with 5 bullets per shot)
6.5 Mil circle accuracy (ObjectTemplate.deviation.subProjectileDev 0.1862)
1:4 tracer to ball ratio (estimation)

I'll make a youtube video sometime.

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2007-12-28 08:01

Any chance of the merlin getting a tail gunner

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/maysan.htm

Soulja · Post by **Soulja** » 2007-12-28 08:19

Anderson29 wrote:well i did a few air assaults in iraq...all i remember seeing on the BH's were 50cals...never rode on an special ops bird...saw em drop some seals off a couple of times...thats about it.

oh... and if all the assets we use ar sf... give us the sf hummer. 50cal main turret..240b mounted on the rear.

Most are armed with .50s but I remember seeing 2 Blackhawks at Campbell with Miniguns and got to see some of the gunner training but most that are only going to drop troops and return to base. The minigun is used when the blackhawks stay in the area and give support fire and when they might need the extra firepower. The military doesn't like to use them a lot because they are extremely expensive and expensive to shoot. Regardless, they do exist and for a beach landing against formidable opponents they would probably be equipped.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-12-28 08:24

Could someone tell me the ratio of ball to tracer used in the miniguns please?

Soulja · Post by **Soulja** » 2007-12-28 08:31

nedlands1 wrote:Could someone tell me the ratio of ball to tracer used in the miniguns please?

Think it was 9:1 instead of the normal 5:1 load. Might be 10:1 tho.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-12-28 08:36

Soulja wrote:Think it was 9:1 instead of the normal 5:1 load. Might be 10:1 tho.

Awesome, thanks.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2007-12-28 08:52

4:1 is generally considered standard for MGs operating at a cyclic rate of 550-750 rds/min. So for a weapon operating at 3000 rpm probably double it? I couldn't find anything worthwhile about in either janes or on globalsecurity, and a google search yielded nothing passable.

My thinking is that since you're putting out more than 4 times as many rounds you're not going to need as many tracers, which I think is right. However, no firm data.

BTW thanks to Soulja and Anderson for the first hand knowledge. I just look **** up, it helps to hear the truth from someone.

*So in the amount of time it took me to look that up with my dying internet connection, you got all that. ****

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-12-28 09:03

Having extensively trialled my current setup for the minigun, I think I need to rethink the implementation. If you strafe a target, instead of getting a nice row of holes, you get clumps of 5 rounds widely spaced. I think I need to set it up with multiple barrels like the Tunguska.

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2007-12-28 09:11

I agree with the minigun issue. Whether it's realistic or not I don't know, but right now you can never use them effectively. The Gunner for some reason gets often gets killed a lot more than his targets. There was only one game I can recall where I've seen good success with the miniguns. I was piloting the blackhawk on Jabal AL Burj. Had a 2 man squad with a dedicated gunner. For some reason, fortune favored us that day because my gunner was ripping up the mountainsides with hailstorms of bullets, killing dozens by the end of the game. Though of course, I had to keep the BH at a very steady hover, I imagine it still took longer than necessary for my gunner to eliminate his targets.

Some small splash damage would definitely get the job done. I'd recommend that because I remember that was the method used on the old PoE1 blackhawks. And man those things were something to be feared by infantry.It wasn't overpowered though, often times the blackhawks had to stay in constant motion to avoid rockets and small arms fire.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2007-12-28 10:05

Okay, my idea of having extra barrels to bring up the ROF is retarded since the barrels will fire alternatively. Therefore I must get the most out of the shotgun effect. Since I can't have any values which aren't multiples of 1800 for the ROF and I can't get the ROF to be 3000 or 4000 RPM exactly, without making the batch size huge with a small ROF, I must approximate the overall ROF. I can have the batch size as 2 and put the ROF as 1800 RPM which will give 3600 RPM. Alternatively I can put the batch size as 3 and have the ROF as 900 which would give a ROF of 2700. It is probably better having it as 2 since there will not be as much clumping as there would be with a large batch size.

BLUFOR-73 · Post by **BLUFOR-73** » 2007-12-28 11:09

nedlands1 wrote:Okay, my idea of having extra barrels to bring up the ROF is retarded since the barrels will fire alternatively. Therefore I must get the most out of the shotgun effect. Since I can't have any values which aren't multiples of 1800 for the ROF and I can't get the ROF to be 3000 or 4000 RPM exactly, without making the batch size huge with a small ROF, I must approximate the overall ROF. I can have the batch size as 2 and put the ROF as 1800 RPM which will give 3600 RPM. Alternatively I can put the batch size as 3 and have the ROF as 900 which would give a ROF of 2700. It is probably better having it as 2 since there will not be as much clumping as there would be with a large batch size.

can you show us the results? (in pictures)

Viper5 · Post by **Viper5** » 2007-12-28 11:46

Soulja wrote:Most are armed with .50s but I remember seeing 2 Blackhawks at Campbell with Miniguns and got to see some of the gunner training but most that are only going to drop troops and return to base. The minigun is used when the blackhawks stay in the area and give support fire and when they might need the extra firepower. The military doesn't like to use them a lot because they are extremely expensive and expensive to shoot. Regardless, they do exist and for a beach landing against formidable opponents they would probably be equipped.

No, most are armed with M240s. If you saw a BHawk w/ Minigun at Ft. Campbell,myou probably weren't seeing a 101st Blackhawk

Ft. Campbell Garrison:
101st Airborne Division (Air Assault)
5th Special Forces Group
160th SOAR

101st Blackhawks near Tikrit, Notice the M240s in the windows

Nedlands, how practical would it be to set the RPM to 1000 and have a 4 round shotgun effect with very little spread? Would basically be 4,000 RPM

As per FAS, the M134 operates at 2,000 or 4,000 RPM.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/m134.htm

Epim3theus · Post by **Epim3theus** » 2007-12-28 12:15

Yes, i thought the effectivines of the miniguns on the Blackhawks was tuned down to simulate 240's by the Devs, because lack of time to make the actual guns. I think i've read that in a previous thread about those miniguns.
You see miniguns, but they are 240's, that sums it up.