Ignition On/Off Switch

gclark03 · Post by **gclark03** » 2008-01-06 20:06

Have you ever wondered why a pilot who jumps out of a helicopter can't simply leave the ignition on? Or even why a truck driver can't leave his vehicle on if he hops out for a second or two?

Vehicle ignition would help in two ways: preventing players from accidentally jumping out of moving vehicles and allowing a pilot to leave the chopper for short periods of time without having to warm up the engine.

I don't know how this could have a negative effect on game balance, and it just makes sense - how can the engine "cool down" instantly and force the pilot to wait 30 seconds for it to "warm up" again? Perhaps the engine could idle for 30sec.-1 min. before automatically shutting down, but any vehicle driver should have the option of leaving the vehicle running for some period of time without being in the driver's seat.

For non-driver seats, is it possible to have double-tap commands? I'm thinking that, as a failsafe for those accidental exits, you'd have to double-tap or hold E to leave the vehicle; a single tap would do nothing. This would prevent those terrible accidents when you think you're typing, but forget to bring up the text field. In the current game, as soon as you hit E, you're road pizza.

Post by **Deadfast** » 2008-01-06 20:10

Yeah, great idea.
Let the chopper pilots seat-switch again...

gclark03 · Post by **gclark03** » 2008-01-06 20:15

There's already a system in place from vBF2 to prevent that, especially in the Cobra. I don't know if it applies to the PR choppers, but it could be coded in relatively easily (I think/hope). Also, the same cooldown for the tank cannon could be coded into the helicopter gunner position, to prevent solo-crewing in the air.

Post by **Deadfast** » 2008-01-06 20:33

No, you don't get the point I'm afraid.

The system you're talking about is the fact that the chopper engine takes 30 seconds to start up. In vBF2 it took like 5.

Right now, if you switch from a pilot to gunner the engine goes off and therefore when you switch back, you won't start it in time.

After your change there would be a certain delay so you could easily switch to gunner without and back without the need to start the engine again.

Of course, there may be another system to prevent this, but you know this:
"Don't fix it if it ain't broken"

Brood · Post by **Brood** » 2008-01-06 20:37

I get what you're saying, like in ArmA where you can leave the ignition on then leave the vehicle sitting idle.

I'd love to see this in PR, I'm sure the devs would too, but I'm afraid it may be one of those things that's hardcoded.

gclark03 · Post by **gclark03** » 2008-01-06 20:39

What you're saying is that there's an easy and proven solution, but that implementing the solution could introduce more problems than it solves.

Almost every dramatic change in .7 has been the same, and the game isn't any worse because of it - tougher, maybe, but not worse.

Bisclaveret · Post by **Bisclaveret** » 2008-01-06 21:25

WW2 Online had this feature, too (although you couldn't exit vehicles, the engine was so old that entering/exiting them was impossible, you were spawned in a vehicle at an army base/resupply point/FOB) Where your tank or other vehicle could be left in ambush with the engines off and needed a while to restart. Of course, they also had fuel limits, engine temp, oil temp, etc to worry about too in that game. You couldn't drive your tank the 200 miles from one FOB to a city (and yes, the game was that large, it emulates Europe on i think a 1:4 ratio) at full speed and expect to arrive there without your engine blown up or run out of fuel.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-07 03:17

So the point of this is basically to let all the nub pilots jump out and do....what? Your job is to fly the helo. Just fly the bloody thing.

LtSoucy · Post by **LtSoucy** » 2008-01-07 19:41

I dont think its possible in the BF2 engine. And would this change gameplay?

Leo · Post by **Leo** » 2008-01-07 22:45

This way, copilots could actually be copilots. So if the main chopper pilot dies, the co-pilot can take over the controls.

It makes sense, but I think there is no cool down time after you leave the vehicle, it instantly cools down, but I wouldn't know, chances are it's hard-coded.

Deadfast, there's a difference between fixing and improving. To stop solo-gunning, as said by clark, could be prevented with a 15-30 second warm up time for the gunner.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-08 00:12

I'm pretty sure that is hardcoded for there to be only 1 pilot. I don't think it would even be possible for that kind of control transition, DICE just isn't that bright.

Leo · Post by **Leo** » 2008-01-08 00:53

BloodBane611 wrote:I'm pretty sure that is hardcoded for there to be only 1 pilot. I don't think it would even be possible for that kind of control transition, DICE just isn't that bright.

I didn't mean control transition, I meant that the copilot could switch to the pilot seat, a sort of a ghetto control transition, but as I said, the warm up time is restarted every time the pilot gets out of the seat.

gclark03 · Post by **gclark03** » 2008-01-08 00:58

You seem to have missed some of my original post. The Ignition I/O switch would only function as a switch in the operator's seat. For all other seats, the player would have to double-tap E to exit the vehicle, preventing accidental vehicle exits. No more, no less.

Also, from my layman's viewpoint, this seems to be doable, even if it isn't the easiest low-priority addition to the game. All you would have to do is use the same "parking brake" that prevents use of a vehicle without the correct kit, minus the death timer. The player gets in, presses E another time, and the engine starts as normal. Likewise, for the driver's seat, one tap of E shuts off the engine and brings the vehicle to a drifting stop (this part might be hard), and another tap after a few seconds restarts the engine (hardcoded?). Two quick taps once the vehicle has come to a stop would leave the engine on after the player leaves the vehicle, and holding E would shut off the engine and exit the vehicle. (this sounds really hard with the engine, if not impossible).

Does BF2 have the ability to treat the 'engine' as a separate identity? To clarify, can the BF2 engine be modified to the point where it does not simply play a sound file and activate the vehicle when entered, but actually supports the use of another key to start the sound and the vehicle? If anything, this is the tricky part.

gclark03 · Post by **gclark03** » 2008-01-18 02:13

Do you, as forum posters, have the ability to respond to a (hopefully) well-constructed and well-written question? All I want is a clear answer.

Post by **Rudd** » 2008-01-18 03:06

Leo wrote:This way, copilots could actually be copilots. So if the main chopper pilot dies, the co-pilot can take over the controls.

It makes sense, but I think there is no cool down time after you leave the vehicle, it instantly cools down, but I wouldn't know, chances are it's hard-coded.

Deadfast, there's a difference between fixing and improving. To stop solo-gunning, as said by clark, could be prevented with a 15-30 second warm up time for the gunner.

x2

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-18 04:32

Trying to create solutions by logically thinking about how the code works out is not a viable method. It is simply making things up that you hope work.

As far as actual usability ingame, it all seems a bit pointless. Double-tapping E to get out? Ignoring the likely possibility that it's hardcoded, you could avoid the need for it by simply being careful around your E key. Pilots getting out of choppers really shouldn't be happening, as no pilot is going to hop out of his chopper on a whim. Learning to fly so that you don't have to hop out to correct is an important skill.

DarkTalon · Post by **DarkTalon** » 2008-01-18 05:51

hate to say it, but this is one of the reasons, i switched over to ArmA, other than the fact i got a new PC, that can actually run it the way it's meant to be played.

I can land a blackhawk, hop out and set up a perimeter while the rotors are still spinning. for as long as I want , if you're evacuating troops, you land, hop out check the perimeter, load the troops and hop in and the engine is all warmed up for you

.

i've always wanted to see a feature like this in PR, with the warmup time (which i think was a good decision) it pretty much rules out any chance of this happening though

unless you could script a "ghost" player to be in the vehicle when it's not occupied, however my scripting knowledge is pretty limited outside of the source/havok II engine.

Safekeeper · Post by **Safekeeper** » 2008-01-18 15:41

There's also the argument that with an ignition feature, you'd be able to turn off the engine of your vehicle when standing still without having to leave the driver position, so that you won't be heard by everyone within the nearest 100 meters.

As for the 'E' key, that's something that's caused me some grievance as the damned key is right next to the WASD keys, so when I played '42 I just remapped the Exit vehicle key to Alt and the Secondary Weapons key to 'E'. Don't know if it's possible with PR. Either way, I agree with the double-tapping, provided of course that it's possible.

Salah ad Din · Post by **Salah ad Din** » 2008-01-19 14:33

DarkTalon wrote:I can land a blackhawk, hop out and set up a perimeter while the rotors are still spinning. for as long as I want , if you're evacuating troops, you land, hop out check the perimeter, load the troops and hop in and the engine is all warmed up for you .

Hate to say this, but can you imagine a pilot in a real army getting out of his chopper while dropping off or pickung up troops?
Apart from the fact that it would probably take some time to get out (remove radio headphones, unbuckle seatbelts, maybe a sort of handbrake, and what else not) a pilot should pilot and not "set-up a perimeter". You don't even have a real rifle as pilot.

gclark03 · Post by **gclark03** » 2008-01-19 15:00

Giving the pilot the ability to jump out while the engine is running is only a corollary of the main reason: preventing accidental vehicle exits. Also, is it not more realistic than the insta-ignition we have now?