Tanks vs. Helicopters

BLUFOR-73 · Post by **BLUFOR-73** » 2008-01-09 19:39

hes right though. attack helos are fubared no matter how you approach your target as you have to get within visual range to attack it (even with laser designation) visual range = tank can see you too = dead.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2008-01-09 19:54

Viper.Sw wrote: In real life they DO NOT need any damn infantry to spot tanks!

.

exactly .

to kill tanks, choppers dont need somebody to "paint" the target , they do it by their selfs , just point-n-click.

hope the devs make choppers like that , and reserve the lazer painting thing to support inf (for example launching a hellfire to a building or to a bunker) and not for kill tanks.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-09 20:16

I agree that killing tanks with the current setup is just much more complicated than it realistically should be. But as far as balance goes, you don't want the two attack helicopters on the map just tearing everything up, because that would be lame. I think we're at a decent balance point right now.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-09 20:18

That what the damn AA is for...without AA tanks should be vulnerable. Chopper>Tank Tank>AA AA>Chopper

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2008-01-09 20:19

BloodBane611 wrote:I agree that killing tanks with the current setup is just much more complicated than it realistically should be. But as far as balance goes, you don't want the two attack helicopters on the map just tearing everything up, because that would be lame. I think we're at a decent balance point right now.

no we dont , righ now you can go with your mates in tank and dont fear anything , with the realistic setup , you SHOULD travel in convoy with AA vehicles , making it even more realistic .

lysander_atrull · Post by **lysander_atrull** » 2008-01-09 20:44

I can't believe anyone doubts a main battle tank shell would take a helo down.

Most helos will be taken down by an rpg. Perhaps the most likely to survive is an apache due to redundant systems but it is still far less well armored than a tank, or an apc, since it needs to fly. Furthermore Helo is much more delicate to damage - imagine a tank shell hit the point between the tail rotor and the main rotor - the Helo would just fall out the sky spinning faster and faster until it hits the earth. A tank hit in the tracks (i.e. not main body) might still be a defensive weapon.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-09 21:00

No sane person in here is doubting a MBT shell would down a heli. The issue is that Helicopters are forced to snuggle up to these tanks, hover to give your gunner a site picture and then fire a manually guided rocket from an unstabilized platform. I'm no expert but I'm pretty dang sure thats not how choppers work IRL. And the point of a human lased target is that choppers can fire them from behind ridges 5 km out for a kill. But still I don't claim to be a perfect chopper pilot and I haven't spent 20 hours in-game as it's early and I have a life. I'm just speculating from my limited experience.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-09 21:04

Tanks can kill with laser accuracy in-game from 2km out....why not start by giving choppers the ability to EASILY see the lock icon and fire-forget a hellfire for the kill at 2km out? It's not like the laser lockons are everywhere...its a process that should be rewarded with realistic consequences. Tanks do a good job keeping INF off them...I don't think it would out balance the choppers.

Waaah_Wah · Post by **Waaah_Wah** » 2008-01-09 21:05

I find it really easy to take out chopters right now unless the chopter has a spotter on the ground...

PlatinumA1 · Post by **PlatinumA1** » 2008-01-09 22:02

i know how you guys feel , the only way i can think of changing is the way we move the turret in the tank , instead of a mouse you have to you use the wasd keys , w & s to move it up and down | a and d to move it side to side , but i doubt that this is possible

BLUFOR-73 · Post by **BLUFOR-73** » 2008-01-09 22:10

PlatinumA1 wrote:i know how you guys feel , the only way i can think of changing is the way we move the turret in the tank , instead of a mouse you have to you use the wasd keys , w & s to move it up and down | a and d to move it side to side , but i doubt that this is possible

ever played fools road?

Waaah_Wah · Post by **Waaah_Wah** » 2008-01-09 23:14

PlatinumA1 wrote:i know how you guys feel , the only way i can think of changing is the way we move the turret in the tank , instead of a mouse you have to you use the wasd keys , w & s to move it up and down | a and d to move it side to side , but i doubt that this is possible

Or just make it move slower... Like it does in Challenger 2 atm

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2008-01-10 00:44

Meh IRl choppers attack armor out of range, but in PR tanks and choppers range are the same.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-10 00:51

You can do it with a infantry lased target but doing anything manually requires you to get well within the tanks range...then it gets ugly.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2008-01-10 01:44

VipersGhost wrote:You can do it with a infantry lased target but doing anything manually requires you to get well within the tanks range...then it gets ugly.

Yeah cause I'm sure that would be feasible tactic with 1 million tanks roaring through eastern Europe at 60 mph treads up prepared to eat its weight in be-SIMRAD'ed Squad leaders and their 12 year old S93C 0P5 counterparts, which was the exact scenario that the apache was designed to prevent at all costs.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-10 07:07

[R-CON]CAS_117 wrote:Yeah cause I'm sure that would be feasible tactic with 1 million tanks roaring through eastern Europe at 60 mph treads up prepared to eat its weight in be-SIMRAD'ed Squad leaders and their 12 year old S93C 0P5 counterparts, which was the exact scenario that the apache was designed to prevent at all costs.

Oh yeah I wasn't arguing with you, just saying in-game you can engage at greater lengths. But yeah, I'm a big fan of the choppers but also understand why the human guided rockets had to go. So I guess the question is how can you accurately model the choppers effectivity into the game? I think they should own tanks on the ground...to the point where it should be fairly easy to kill them...with or without a previously lased target. This is why its necessary for AA to be present. Combined arms...not lone tanks going over the hills, through the woods to china's village we go.

Wellink · Post by **Wellink** » 2008-01-10 12:32

With the new AA changes the choppers is weak against everything, AA takes it down easily as do tanks heck apc's can take down a chopper with a bit luck and remember infantry has a stinger wich is an extremely good counter to any type of air. Also I'am not only talking about attack choppers but also about littlebirds and transport choppers it seems kind of stupid that an tank can shoot down a littlebird in flight.

Mora · Post by **Mora** » 2008-01-10 15:12

i agree choppers are way to fast shot down... but i said that already before 0.7 was out.. choppers are too weak in pr too easy to get shot.. and i also have said before that they need a radar.. just a icon on the tanks like jets had

daranz · Post by **daranz** » 2008-01-10 18:24

In real life, the Cobra doesn't have a radar. It has FLIR and daytime TV optics for looking for targets, manually. The way the missiles are handled right now is pretty realistic (at least from what I tried offline, on the ground - with the amount of people wanting to fly the things, I haven't gunned for anyone in months). In real life, laser guided hellfires are laser guided, in that the launching platform paints targets with its laser designator, and the hellfires home onto that laser. Except, of course, view ranges are much greater in real life, where a chopper can hide behind a building on the horizon, and not be detected until it fires the missile.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-10 19:05

Longbow to provide radar system for AH-1Z SuperCobra

old news from 2001.

Longbow radar, effective on stationary targets at 4km...8km on moving targets. I'm sure the weapon system is far from perfect but rest assured they do have radar capabilities. Of course not every chopper has been upgraded with longbows and newer hellfires. We have the AH-1Z in-game iirc.

Also ever wonder what that goofy looking bubble is on top of the apache?