The BIG maps - thoughts and issues.

[Tannhauser]

I must agree that PR needs more CQC and half-vehicular medium-sized maps like Steel thunder. Mountains, Forests, Tight Cities, Jungles, Fog and Night Environments restrain vehicular battle and favor MRIC and CQC as well as some clearings can permit the use of small/medium vehicle support to infantry.

Muttrah V2 will be great, as it is full of city and mountains, making it an advantage for infantry. West Fallujah goes in the same direction but with small vehicle support. As for those already there : Bi Ming, Hills of Hamgyong(bad layout),Assault on Mestia, OGT.. On larger extents, more C-Ops oriented maps still have large infantry focus zones like GovOffice in Qwai River and HilltopEstate in Fools Road.

I feel that the problem with Qinling is that there is not enough interest for infantry movements. Village and its outskirts and Farm are the only zones where infantry is focused. If Qinling had a larger infantry focus zone, like the Bunkers in Kashan, it would let infantry players play their prefered role. I heard that the map layout was based upon a BF1942 map, wich is not bad, but makes infantry less effective.

[Rhino]

I heard that the map layout was based upon a BF1942 map, wich is not bad, but makes infantry less effective.

na, was never based upon just after I set out the idea of the flag layout it was pretty similar to a bf1942 map apart from the big fecking lake in the middle

Also Qinling is more suited too mech infantry, due to the hills and trees braking up the map, they have a much higher chance of survival but will need transport at the same time otherwise they wont get any where in time. focusing infantry into 1 area of the map is bad IMO as if the fighting aint there, infantry have no hope like tanks picking off infantry on the bare sands of kashan.

[Tannhauser]

focusing infantry into 1 area of the map is bad IMO as if the fighting aint there, infantry have no hope like tanks picking off infantry on the bare sands of kashan.

Was more thinking about cities like in Qwai Rivers GovOffice, it is large enough to have good CQC, it's central because the bridges go directly to it and so the tanks/APCs/Etc must have infantry cover as they are close enough to buildings to be C4ed or L/HATed by enemy infantry.

.. Didn't think of the mechanized inf aspect, seems like a good idea come to think about it.

BTW, Rhino, why is the sign-post near Coal Mine on Qinling, in arabic!?

[Rhino]

BTW, Rhino, why is the sign-post near Coal Mine on Qinling, in arabic!?

lol, well you see its arabic mining group mining in ehhh chian, ok i fail

and ye, its always good to have spots that are more friendly to infantry or other types of combat around the map to keep it all fresh, but having 1 point where infantry should always stay to survive it bad

[Nickbond592]

I can't play the new 0.7 maps cos I lag too much

Everywhere else 80FPS is easy, other games 100fps is easy (F.e.a.r, HL2, etc) Qinling 20FPS is amazing, 15 is normal. Regardless of graphics settings

do you have a X-fi card ?

[bobfish]

Maybe you need to give vehicles a reason to go through the village then, rough up the terrain a bit more on the east side of the map, try and make the tanks go the low road through the village?

[Rhino]

Maybe you need to give vehicles a reason to go through the village then, rough up the terrain a bit more on the east side of the map, try and make the tanks go the low road through the village?

tanks in r/l should stay on the low ground to avoid being a target. in r/l what you try to do is a tank commander is only expose yourself at a min too 1 target at a time if possible, if you go onto the top of a hill, yes you can see every target, but at the same time they can see you and fire on you, when you yourself can only engage 1 at a time soo its not such a good idea.

[Wolfe]

I'd like see more "push" style flag captures for large, combined arms maps. This might work well for Qinling.

For anyone wondering, a "push" map has a linear flag progression; your entire team attacks one flag after another, rather than multiple flags at once. Like a team tug of war, attempting to push your opponent back to his main base.

Push maps give the feel of a full scale war directly ahead of you, without being spread out all over the map.

[VipersGhost]

I agree with you there Wolf. I've favored that style for the big maps and since there will be enough vehicles fighting in the same general area...it'll allow for some tactics to be played out...flanking, breaking the line...more chopper troop coordination and less back and forth transport. Plus I think it'll still allow the losing team to have a good time as well.

[BloodBane611]

I also agree. Push maps concentrate people while still allowing for tactical creativity. When teams end up all over the map it gets a bit boring, while concentrating everyone in one area allows a bit more action. This is pretty important because even with 32 players on a team, at least 1/3 of them will be respawning, getting a vehicle, being sneaky, sniping, or some non-active combat activity at any given time, so getting them all to focus in a somewhat smaller area keeps the pace up a bit.

I don't think all maps should be push, but almost every map now seems to incorporate at least one set of flags that can be capped simultaneously, forcing teams to split up and reducing the overall fighting into smaller groups.

[Oldirti]

if Kashan's bunkers had undgerground corridors it would be amazing.

[blud]

Unfortunately Qinling is basically unplayable for me, and that's even after I set my settings to low. But I have a pretty old computer so, what are you gonna do...

[FoW_Strummer]

I dont know what makes me more sad...

The fact that Street is off the rotation

Or that Jessica Alba is pregnant.

Right, now they are pretty damn close....

[Wolfe]

"Push" maps don't work well for small maps like Street where it's infantry only and the spawn points are so close together.

People are so eager to get back into the fight after each death that they don't bother waiting for a squad/team coordinated attack; they pull a rambo, throw smoke and nades, then run in guns blazing every 35 seconds.

[Doom721]

Gah @ people who want street back, too confined even for infantry

Personally I don't like qinling, mainly because I enjoy an infantry role and I rarely get into a GOOD mech armor squad or lead one, so leads to either tanking with friends or infantry with friends... oh the agony!

Fools road is nice though, feels like perfect harmony - its big but it has slow respawning assets to focus the fight mostly on infantry and AT infantry and some APC squads for british

Mainly its the fact that older maps like steel thunder smaller versions RIP are leaving, and we replace them with qinling and fools road - I like large engagements at all, but I rather would play a round of OGT, EJOD, Qwai, Sunset city or fools road, rather than qinling - its just too much of a hassle - I run it fine - but then theres the tack of performance issues :/

[CAS_117]

Captian Obvious ^^

Woah I've been promoted?

[bobfish]

tanks in r/l should stay on the low ground to avoid being a target. in r/l what you try to do is a tank commander is only expose yourself at a min too 1 target at a time if possible, if you go onto the top of a hill, yes you can see every target, but at the same time they can see you and fire on you, when you yourself can only engage 1 at a time soo its not such a good idea.

Is there any plans to address this issue then? On all maps that it happens? Getting tanks to the high ground seems to be a common tactic in PR and is pretty much my main complaint about these larger maps, how the armor sits on a hill and snipes or lays down random artillery fire on a cp. It's why I don't like Kashan.

[DJJ-Terror]

good point bobfish but it can be adressed pretty easy by seting one tankbuster chopper per each side on such maps...

[fludblud]

i personally believe that maps like kashan and qingling are simply too big and have too much armour for just 64 players, maybe a couple of hundred or even thousands but when you have about 5 infantry on the ground and all the tanks hiding in hills sniping each other, it really takes the lustre out of the exiting PR firefights

[bobfish]

good point bobfish but it can be adressed pretty easy by seting one tankbuster chopper per each side on such maps...

It's a lot easier to crew three tanks and be effective than it is to pilot one attack helo and be effective. I mean these maps already have great anti-tank from the air, the problem comes in not only finding competent pilots but also coordination to lase the targets.

If map design discouraged this tactic though, for example the hill to the north-east of the Bunker is sloped on both sides, so the tank can sit on the south-west facing slope providing it with the right angle to aim down into the Bunkers, changing this to have a small cliff on the south-west side of the hill would prevent tanks from doing this easily, as the gun can't shoot below the horizon, so sitting on to the hill would not be useful. And those that dropped down the short cliff could only retreat towards the Bunkers, meaning then can't duck back for cover easily, leaving them open to enemy fire for a longer period.

Though ideally, I'd like to see a mechanic that encouraged a tank to keep moving, rather than sit still and snipe.