Tanks vs. Helicopters

Brummy · Post by **Brummy** » 2008-01-10 19:17

Fly high, use a spotter that is in your squad. When the target is marked you dive and shoot him down. Climb to altitude, repeat.

Simple as that.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2008-01-10 19:23

brummy.uk wrote:Fly high, use a spotter that is in your squad. When the target is marked you dive and shoot him down. Climb to altitude, repeat.

Simple as that.

Spotters are morons.

DirtyHarry88 · Post by **DirtyHarry88** » 2008-01-10 20:49

[R-CON]CAS_117 wrote:Spotters are morons.

Aye.

If you're stupid enough to fly low and close to a tank then you deserve to be shot down, nothing wrong with it.

Mora · Post by **Mora** » 2008-01-10 20:58

i know how to handle a chopper in pr just hide in the clouds and tanks wont see you

but i don't like laser target mode its useless because you have to fire the laser-target thing (right klik) and it has the same speed as the laser-guided missile
so why use it if you can shoot with the laser-guided missile the first time... its totally useless!

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2008-01-10 21:27

Engineer wrote:Is it possible to detach the TV-camera view out from the model itself?

Meaning, with missile camera view you would actually be watching the view from hundred meters ahead the chopper object.

ASCII art:
Code: Select all
           TV camera view           ____    
                  >|                 ()--*   <- chopper object
_-_
ooo

^ Enemy vehicle

You see, what I am trying to do is basically turn the tanks/choppers/jets targeting camera into a unpowered missile that you can place in a target,or a laser spot that the gunner can place.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-10 21:43

Can we increase the velocity that the laser target is shot at...and have it guided? That would help with spotters and gunners when they try to spot a moving target.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2008-01-10 22:00

brummy.uk wrote:Fly high, use a spotter that is in your squad. When the target is marked you dive and shoot him down. Climb to altitude, repeat.

Simple as that.

new for you:

thats not how it work in real lilfe , and since this is a realistic mod , choppers should be changed .

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-10 22:24

brummy.uk wrote:Fly high, use a spotter that is in your squad. When the target is marked you dive and shoot him down. Climb to altitude, repeat.

Simple as that.

Any half-wit pilot can easily pop your *** that high. It's far from a protected position if planes are present. It also makes you an easier target for the AA. If the airspace is controlled then I would take a chance...otherwise no way.

Whats wrong with giving chopper radar guided Hellfires...where you go and lockon to the tanks with them and fire? The laser-targeted mode could still be an option and then for marking targets/teamwork but the laser-guided option would be gone (due to stabilization issues etc) and replaced with a lock-on able rocket.

I would extend the range at which a laser-targeted hellfire could be shot (which is realistic) that way using it would have greater advantages and you could stay out of hostile airspace while engaging. Then for everything else use lock-on rockets but they have limited ranges like 800m's or something.

This would keep the tanks off the damn ridges and back on the flat ground hiding from the choppers (like RL)...and back to realistic tactics while also giving the choppers a closer-metaphor for their RL capabilities/superiority over Armor. Also it would require tanks to have AA. No more pushing out front into the lonely mountains, up in the trees silly stuff.

They would need AA unless the enemy chopper is toast. The AA is insanely effective and there is only a tone when you are LOCKED and its on the way.

This imo drives more realism into the tactics of the armor and helicopters....while better simulating eachs effective role and driving more teamwork.

Mora · Post by **Mora** » 2008-01-11 03:01

VipersGhost wrote:Any half-wit pilot can easily pop your *** that high. It's far from a protected position if planes are present. It also makes you an easier target for the AA. If the airspace is controlled then I would take a chance...otherwise no way.

Whats wrong with giving chopper radar guided Hellfires...where you go and lockon to the tanks with them and fire? The laser-targeted mode could still be an option and then for marking targets/teamwork but the laser-guided option would be gone (due to stabilization issues etc) and replaced with a lock-on able rocket.

I would extend the range at which a laser-targeted hellfire could be shot (which is realistic) that way using it would have greater advantages and you could stay out of hostile airspace while engaging. Then for everything else use lock-on rockets but they have limited ranges like 800m's or something.

This would keep the tanks off the damn ridges and back on the flat ground hiding from the choppers (like RL)...and back to realistic tactics while also giving the choppers a closer-metaphor for their RL capabilities/superiority over Armor. Also it would require tanks to have AA. No more pushing out front into the lonely mountains, up in the trees silly stuff.

They would need AA unless the enemy chopper is toast. The AA is insanely effective and there is only a tone when you are LOCKED and its on the way.

This imo drives more realism into the tactics of the armor and helicopters....while better simulating eachs effective role and driving more teamwork.

yes!! this is exactly what i mean! i agree on every point! and if the tankers read this.. its realistic! and not overpowered you just have to work with a AAV and not just hang over somewhere alone. PR Teamwork required.

agentscar · Post by **agentscar** » 2008-01-11 03:21

How is a tank shell PWNING an Apache un-realistic?

Compare:

125mm. shell (T-90)
vs.
AH-64 Apache Longbow

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-11 03:42

VipersGhost that seems like a very good system. I am a bit wary of giving attack helos more power, but as long as it is only on the missiles I think it could go a long way towards balancing out the tanks on kashan.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2008-01-11 04:07

Viper ghost, I made exactly what you we're talking about two months ago. I hate to break it to you, but the choppers can't target tanks very well intentionally. In fact, tanks are basically all like F-22's on wheels since you can't target them at all. If missiles can lock onto planes, then they should also be able to lock onto tanks, unless we make a designator for infantry to use on aircraft, which of course promotes teamwork. But thats BS.

And Bloodbane, how else can you make choppers overpowerd without their missiles being over powered. This system makes aircraft defense/attrition a necessary tactic instead of random AA vehicles following tanks around. To be honest, since both sides would have this system, I don't see it becoming out of hand. AA is still not working as well as I want it should however; would need some tweaking before this would be fair.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-11 10:19

[R-CON]CAS_117 wrote:Viper ghost, I made exactly what you we're talking about two months ago. I hate to break it to you, but the choppers can't target tanks very well intentionally. In fact, tanks are basically all like F-22's on wheels since you can't target them at all. If missiles can lock onto planes, then they should also be able to lock onto tanks, unless we make a designator for infantry to use on aircraft, which of course promotes teamwork. But thats BS.

Sucks to hear that about the radar lock-on to tanks being difficult to lockon...there is no way to improve that. The only reason I even had the idea is because I saw someone suggest using POE's system which iirc had radar lockons. I've never played any other mods so I couldn't say for sure how well it was implemented...nor do I have your expertise/understanding.

WeeGeez · Post by **WeeGeez** » 2008-01-11 16:28

Yup, I agree. one round on kashan, I easily managed to shoot down 2 Mi 28's that were in full flight with my tank

I was amazed, then bragged for the rest of the round

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2008-01-11 20:26

VipersGhost wrote:Sucks to hear that about the radar lock-on to tanks being difficult to lockon...there is no way to improve that. The only reason I even had the idea is because I saw someone suggest using POE's system which iirc had radar lockons. I've never played any other mods so I couldn't say for sure how well it was implemented...nor do I have your expertise/understanding.

You misunderstand. The system you proposed is quite functional and I think works extremely well. In direct AA engagements, the AAV won 4/10 attempts, and that was with an earlier version of the SAMs, which weren't as good as now. Its just like the F-15's laser missiles except on a chopper. Right now, tanks outrange choppers as far direct engagements go, while IRl attack helos can engage from 3 or 4 times the distance. Not that its possible in PR, but the accuracy should be similar to reality if the range can't. But what can you do

.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-11 20:38

[R-CON]CAS_117 wrote:You misunderstand. The system you proposed is quite functional and I think works extremely well. In direct AA engagements, the AAV won 4/10 attempts, and that was with an earlier version of the SAMs, which weren't as good as now. Its just like the F-15's laser missiles except on a chopper. Right now, tanks outrange choppers as far direct engagements go, while IRl attack helos can engage from 3 or 4 times the distance. Not that its possible in PR, but the accuracy should be similar to reality if the range can't. But what can you do .

!!!? Well I really think PR needs to go to this system. I'm sure their are downsides to it but there is no way that they can be any worse than the current downsides. We'd still retain the laser-target abilities/teamwork and also give the choppers great superiority over rogue tanks without AA. Lets face it, choppers are pretty damn vulnerable...lets at least give them some RL capabilities.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2008-01-11 20:46

VipersGhost wrote:!!!? Well I really think PR needs to go to this system. I'm sure their are downsides to it but there is no way that they can be any worse than the current downsides. We'd still retain the laser-target abilities/teamwork and also give the choppers great superiority over rogue tanks without AA. Lets face it, choppers are pretty damn vulnerable...lets at least give them some RL capabilities.

Impasse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-11 20:52

'[R-CON wrote:CAS_117;579083']Impasse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

lol, sucky...I think after seeing how things go now that maybe people will be open to some new ideas.

On a side note: This POE chopper video is of complete rediculousness BUT I did notice one thing. Notice towards the end that the chopper can fully tilt forward WITHOUT lurching forward, dropping altitude and gaining silly speeds. In RL choppers don't just fly forward super fast if they tilt forward right?

YouTube - Point of Existence 2 EuroTiger

To me PR choppers, especially some of the transports do some crazy stuff if you tilt forward. I could be wrong but it seems like tilting shouldn't drop your altitude and throw you forward so fast like it does.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2008-01-11 21:02

Oh that would take a few minutes to fix. Just the angle of attack on the rotor blades should be set to a steeper angle. I would need to watch some videos and read some books, maybe talk to some chopper pilots here, but it wouldn't be hard to do. I am sort of frustrated with how choppers lose altitude as well. Instead of dropping like how they should they roll to either side, making it usable for a couple dozen feet and then you need to correct or lose control. Again the angle of attack value may have something to do with this; a slower controlled descent is better than an unpredictable plummet.