Active squad-leading - fireteams

[Sgt.Ljung]

First off, pardon me if I use the wrong technical terms for what I´m trying to say. I try to translate the swedish terms I know to their english equivalents, but I don´t know all of them.

Right, my point is that I would like SL:s to actively mangage their squads. When I play as SL I try do split the group into two-man fireteams and then assign orders to each team. In my opinon this is much more effective than having one person do a specific order. The advantage is that you have two sets of eyes, as well as two brains on a job.
For example, if I want a fire team to take out an enemy truck I have one guy concentrating on that while the other member of the fireteam can guard him/her.

The other advantage is when giving orders. If I have divided my squad into fireteams from the start I´ll only have to say "Fireteam one; flank left" instead of saying "person x and person y flank left". Hopefully the fireteams develop an internal division of responsibilities as well.

This may all be a bit to much for short games, but in my opinion it does really add to the gameplay if you are able to play like this.

[ratlover232]

Indeed. Fireteams can be very beneficial, especially if you have a talented FT leader.

[KingKong.CCCP]

very very very very very hard to do in game.
I believe more than 50% of players knows pretty much all the squad/fireteam/platoon/younameit action/tactic... yet, it seems people play the game only to "stick it to the Man". It looks Sl is "the Man".
Most of the times when I'm squadleading, I feel like a grumpy babysitter who won't let children play.
Don't know why. All you need is a good squadleader, and 5 guys ready to listen.
Now that sounds *a lot* easier than it actually is.

[Gyberg]

Me, Bob.Dob, Space, 2Recon, Bjoffe and witzleben used to do this with on a regular basis... It requires alotof training and co-ordination though, not something you do with some random pubbies. And yes, it works very well.

Växelvis Frammåt!

[Grand_maneuver]

Cause it's a hard mix and it isn't something people are used to do, I mean not like you train this unless you are in a clan, if your clan even does the tactic (dontkno aint in a clan)

Also because you have to have the rigt mixes of people to do a succesfull flan, say fireteam 1 is a grenadier and a medic, and orders them to flank an enemy squad, the medic doesn't really have the fire power for a flank like the grenadier has.
Ofcourse that's the squad leaders role to organize that.

But back to the point, random people might not have the training

[X1 Spriggan]

I have trusting problems when it comes to leading people i dont know. Also, its never fun when none of the members have a mind of their own or a voice. Like lemmings they are.

[VipersGhost]

I think a SL using move/defend/attack markers a lot REALLY gives you the edge. Everyone is in sync and you can use the marker for giving solid directions. Your guys should be good enough to follow someone and do the fireteam thing dynamically but stick close to the SL to an extent. This way you have six guns ready if a couple of targets are spotted and the medics/ammo flow freely.

[IAJTHOMAS]

Best way to do this is have 2 4 man fireteams in separate squads with SLs co-ordinating over TS. Each fireteam works together, is self sufficient, but works towards the same objective.

[Sgt.Ljung]

Best way to do this is have 2 4 man fireteams in separate squads with SLs co-ordinating over TS. Each fireteam works together, is self sufficient, but works towards the same objective.

Sure, that is the most effective way of doing it. Since I really like the "reality" aspect of the game I still like the VoIP though. It is alot more like real radio. But, as some of the above have pointed out, it does take a certain kind of player to appreciate this and use it responsibly.

I have found it works well to use fireteams with either people who have played PR for a long time, or people who have a basic military training. The people who expect PR to be just another kind of vanilla usually find it a tad too complicated though.

And I do agree that the use of map-markers can be a really good way of deploying the differnt FT:s.

[Kahn]

I think you didn't highlight the complementarity between classes.
Since some classes are complementary, you can use this complementaries to improve the fireteams effectiveness.
The Squad Leader has to survive, so the Medic becomes his bodyguard.
The AT needs ammo, so the Support follows him to be able to resupply him.

I did a post on the fireteam on another forum. let me copy past what I wrote :

Fireteams are groups of two people that function as a micro team. Fireteam members always stick together, as in the buddy system of SWAT teams.
So the idea is to divide the squad into at least 3 parts.
For example :

Fireteam 01 (Heart) : Officer(L) and Medic(F)
Fireteam 02 (Anti-armor) : Light-AT(L) and Support(F)
Fireteam 03 (Anti-infantry) : Grenadier(L) and Marksman(F)

So you have an egg, an anvil and a hammer. The egg will become the arm with the 0.7. You should have understood the metaphore..

Since some classes are complementary, you can use this complementaries to improve their effectiveness.
The Squad Leader has to survive, so the Medic becomes his bodyguard.
The AT needs ammo, so the Support follows him to be able to resupply him.

The idea is also that at any time, each one has someone who is covering his back. So, whenever one member encounter a threat, they are at least 2 members facing the threat. And if this fireteam communicate. The Squad Leader could assign the two other fireteams to attack the threat one from the North (for example) and the other from the South. Always the idea of surrounding your adversaries.

In french we say "diviser pour mieux régner" : divide so as to lead better.

Each fireteam may be given specific orders by the squad leader. For example, if a tank or APC is spotted, the AT fireteam 02 is ordered to engage it. The rest of the squad assists by covering the AT fireteam 02 from enemy infantry or else by distracting the armor.

If at the begining you assign fireteams, the complicity between each fireteam members will quickly grow. It will tremendously improve the fireteam effectiveness and leads your squad mates to communicate (even the shyier one).
Furthermore, if at the begining you say :
- Fireteam 01 : Kahn / kunderjan
- Fireteam 02 : Bishop / Foehrunner
- Fireteam 03 : Danny / DrRobin
And you assign the kits.

When you will be into the fire, you will only have to say :
- Fireteam 02 : provide suppressive fire on my target (attack/destroy marker)
- Fireteam 01 & 03 : Flank them from the East

Another example when you defend a building :
- Fireteam 01 : defend the last floor
- Fireteam 02 : defend the second floor
- Fireteam 03 : defend the first floor

Example when you attack a flag :
- Fireteam 01 : Attack from the North
- Fireteam 02 : Attack from the East
- Fireteam 03 : Attack from the West

Example when you move :
- Fireteam 02 : Take the lead
- Fireteam 01 : Follow 02
- Fireteam 03 : Cover our back

Example when you defend a flag :
- Fireteam 01 : defend the North
- Fireteam 02 : defend the East
- Fireteam 03 : defend the West


In less than 5 secondes you will set a "complex" tactic. I did this several times on public servers and this was deadly effective. Imagine how this could be with a full private squad.

I was in numerous squad and some Squad Leaders knew these tactics but they didn't use the fireteam concept. You can't imagine how it could improve the effectiveness of your squad.

Another interesting thing is that if you assign fireteam/kits. Every squad member should be able to anticipate the near battle. For example if you hear "fireteam 02 is down", and this fireteam was defending the South. All immediatly know from where it comes.
Plus, if you spot an armor. Automatically the AT fireteam (02) will engage your target. And all will know what he has to do. All will immediatly know that the 02 position will be weakened during the armor hunt. And all will automatically move according to the situation.

The drawbacks of the fireteam concept is that you will quickly have a lot of communication. So your radio will quickly be full and you will have less "spaces" to give orders. According to my experience, it could quickly become the chaos for the Squad Leader. Because the Squad Leader will hear the squad mates voice plus the commander one. You quickly become surrounded by the informations. So the flux has to be managed. The simple way to manage it is to simply give the Squad Leader the priority to speak, and allow the Squad Leader to ask to his squad to stop talking unless if necesary.


Examples of various specialized squads:

DEFAULT SQUAD
Fireteam 01: Officer(L) and Medic(F)
Fireteam 02: AT(L) and Support(F)
Fireteam 03: Grenadier(L)
Fireteam 04: Marksman(L)

ANTI-TANK SQUAD
Fireteam 01: Officer(L) and Medic(F)
Fireteam 02: AT(L) and Support(F)
Fireteam 03: AT or Engineer(L) and Rifleman(F)

URBAN SQUAD (CQC)
Fireteam 01: Officer(L) and Medic(F)
Fireteam 02: AT(L) and Support(F)
Fireteam 03: Spec Ops(L)
Fireteam 04: Marksman(L)

FOREST SQUAD (High cover)
Fireteam 01: Officer(L) and Medic(F)
Fireteam 02: AT(L) and Support(F)
Fireteam 03: Grenadier(L)
Fireteam 04: Rifleman(L)

DESERT SQUAD (Low cover)
Fireteam 01: Officer(L) and Medic(F)
Fireteam 02: AT(L) and Riffleman(F)
Fireteam 03: Grenadier(L)
Fireteam 04: Marksman(L)

SABOTAGE SQUAD (e.g. Anti-bunker)
Fireteam 01: Officer(L) and Medic(F)
Fireteam 02: AT(L) and Support(F)
Fireteam 03: Engineer(L) and Engineer(F) or SpecOps(F)

RIFLEMAN SQUAD
Fireteam 01: Officer(L) and Medic(F)
Fireteam 02: Rifleman(L) and Medic(F)
Fireteam 03: Rifleman(L) and Rifleman(F)

Classes marked with...
(L) = lead the fireteam ( take initiative )
(F) = follow & support the leader
Quote:

"As a Fireteam Leader, the Squad Leader tells you to hold up while he waits for another squad to catch up to the platoon. You see that the location that you're presently at is about 20 meters short of having a good perspective on the terrain in front of you, due to a brush line that is obstructing your view. You take INITIATIVE and move your fireteam 20 meters forward so that they can observe the terrain past the brush line."

(Quote from dslyecxi.com - enjoy your stay)

Example:
Make a RECON FireTeam

Assign one or two members to recon an area to assess the location and danger of potential threats. For example: the Rifleman and Support soldiers are moved to fireteam [05], and the AT stays in fireteam 02. Before he "leaves" the fireteam, the Rifleman/Support should lays down an ammo pack near the AT.

[edited by bishop_smith2 for english]

Edit : When you are in a Fireteam, if you are eliminated and your teammates is too. Set a place where to regroup (Rally Point/Squad Leader/APC/Firebase) with chat or VOIP. Always stick TOGETHER.

I hope we will see more Squad Leader using the Fireteam concept on the PR random servers. This would incredibly increase the TEAMPLAY I think. And show us the potential of this mod on random servers.

______________________________

[SDL]Kahn
=> [PR]CATA|Kahn

[Sgt.Ljung]

Kahn: Excellent post! That was a very good explanation of how to use FT:s in the game.

The only thing I have to add is to stress the importance of SL clarity. If the SL is very clear with what he/she wants to achieve, it can work well even with less experienced players.

With a good pre-battle briefing the FT-leaders will know whats is expected of them and their buddy, and will thus be able to perform better.
As always, information and clear orders are the key to sucess!

[Wicca]

I have actually used Fireteams on alot in PR. And it works very well with random people.

What i mean is that if you are an average PR player and you become squadleader then lead with FT. It works very good.
Communication is very important, and if you dont have voip which some players dont, then playing in fireteams is hard.

[KingKong.CCCP]

oh, I forgot to add...
the best usage of Fireteams I found to be:
3 fireteams (LEFT, RIGHT, CENTRAL). One teamleader and teambuddy per FT, FT named after the FT leader (eg. "Wicca-team", "Sgt.Ljung-team"), or short-nicknamed ("Weez", "LJs").

[fuzzhead]

check this video series out for an example of fireteams being used on a public round:

YouTube - PR v0.7 Fools Road Gameplay Part 1 of 5

We just use "Alpha" and "Bravo"

I tried 3 fireteams of 2 players each in the past, but the comms gets too confusing and the squad is not able to focus enough... so I think breaking the squad into 2 groups keeps things simple enough, while allowing basic support and assault tactics to be implemented.

[ryan d ale]

I've done fireteams with pubbers that I don't know. It worked incredibly well. Only one of them had VOIP and we still kicked ***. One of them was also a sniper too!

We owned and I ain't kiddin'.

It is so much easier to get a squad and do this than people think.

Those people who play musical chairs with the squad leader position should actually stick to it and give it a shot.

[cyberzomby]

Yea I also dont think you want to brake them up in 3 teams. It gets hard to follow or find a moment to talk with 2 fire teams. I didnt lead a squad in fireteams yet but have been in 2 squads that used the tactic. It works nicely, but personally I feel having 6 guys near my position is better in most cases. More men equels more fire power. I send them around the flank manually or lead the charge around the flank while I let my AR and Grenadier surpress.

[Skodz]

very very very very very hard to do in game.
I believe more than 50% of players knows pretty much all the squad/fireteam/platoon/younameit action/tactic... yet, it seems people play the game only to "stick it to the Man". It looks Sl is "the Man".
Most of the times when I'm squadleading, I feel like a grumpy babysitter who won't let children play.
Don't know why. All you need is a good squadleader, and 5 guys ready to listen.
Now that sounds *a lot* easier than it actually is.

lol

I did tried the fireteam tactic once on pub, it worked nice. I will try to use it more in the future.

[Andrew Past]

fuzzhead;588611']check this video series out for an example of fireteams being used on a public round:

YouTube - PR v0.7 Fools Road Gameplay Part 1 of 5

We just use "Alpha" and "Bravo"

I tried 3 fireteams of 2 players each in the past, but the comms gets too confusing and the squad is not able to focus enough... so I think breaking the squad into 2 groups keeps things simple enough, while allowing basic support and assault tactics to be implemented.

Yeah, that's what I like to do. In urban and close quarters maps I like to do this setup when possible: Alpha (SL, Medic, AR gunner) and Bravo (Grenadier/LAT, Medic, Rifleman[FT leader.]) Even though I haven't played in a while, this worked quite well when I used it. Move in two groups when searching. If one FT is taking contact, the other can flank and then help revive/heal others. Once in enemy territory, we moved as a group, and when taking small arms fire, I'd have Alpha suppress, and Bravo flank. If Bravo failed and it was unwise to try and revive them, there's still 2 guys with me to set up a rally if I need to.

Worked pretty well, even with pubbers.

[Skodz]

I use fireteams sometimes when I am SL but honestly, I am playing PR since 0.5 and I never saw any public squad using this tactic... Some people should read forums more.

[PFunk]

I use fireteams sometimes when I am SL but honestly, I am playing PR since 0.5 and I never saw any public squad using this tactic... Some people should read forums more.

A few times when I'd lead and I'd say "so I'm going to make two fire teams of three" some guy or a few would say "NO! thats stupid, doesn't work"

Some people don't feel like trying that hard.